Make suggestions for future WW games!

[Deleted]

Hey there everyone. So we have a thread listing all games and reserving future games, so I thought it was only natural that we should have a suggestions thread as well since I see various ideas tossed around in some of the game topics.

So if you have any ideas/suggestions that you think would help games, you are more than welcome to post them in here, and hosts for upcoming games/potential hosts can take these suggestions if they wish and implement them in their games. Suggestions can include ideas for new roles, theme ideas for future games, rule changes that you feel would make the game either easier, more complex, more amusing, etc... as well as other suggestions that you feel would just overall make WW a much more entertaining experience.

Ideas listed in this thread will be added to a list so that hosts can look at them without having to search if the thread becomes big.

Rule Suggestions
The knowledgeable Dead - GMs may choose to PM someone after they've been lynched/killed off, asking if they'd like to be informed of the nightly synopsis.
The Quiet Dead - When a person has been lynched/killed off, they get one thing to say and then must stay quiet for the rest of the game. Hinting about people you know the roles of is forbidden.
Absolute Silence - Roles may not be revealed unless the person is under threat of death.
The Trade - Roles may be revealed/hinted by the GM by request, but the person who is having their role revealed (by their choice)'s power is negated for the next night and day phase. Villagers cannot reveal their roles unless under threat of death.
The Sacrifice: Roles may be revealed/hinted by the GM by request, but the person who is having their role revealed (by their choice) must choose a teammate to sacrifice.

Role Suggestions
The Saboteur - The Saboteur is a neutral role with a set of powers. For up to a set number of days (left to the GM to decide), they can send in the name of a player to the GM. That player's vote will be negated and will not count at the end of the day phase. For one night only (or more if the GM wishes), the Saboteur can use one of the most cruel moves ever: a move that will completely switch around everyone's roles (excluding theirs and the Doppelganger's). Wolves may become villagers, or even power roles, and vice versa, when the Saboteur uses this dastardly move. The Saboteur can only win the game if the Doppelganger is dead.

The Doppelganger - The Doppelganger is an unusual role in that its ability causes it to change every night. On the first day phase, the Doppelganger starts off as nothing, but on the second day phase, it may be a harmless villager, a new seer, defender, or even werewolf. On the next day phase, the Doppelganger changes form again, assuming some other role. The Doppelganger may choose to use the ability of the form it assumes during the day phase if it is in a power role. The Doppelganger can only win if the Saboteur is dead.

The Informant - The Informant is a neutral role. While they start off not knowing any roles, this can change very quickly. Each night, the Informant may choose to have a copy of the nightly synopsis, giving him the power of knowledge as far as who is what in terms of the power roles. What he chooses to do with this knowledge is completely up to him, but involves having the GM send messages to other players with "information" that he wishes to share. He could choose to message the good guys with this information, the bad guys, or even both. He can choose to even lie and distort his information and give the person a false idea of someone else. Due to his secretive nature the informant puts up a convincing face to the unsuspecting crowd. He can make people believe that he's one of them by creating theories against others, good or bad, and acting like one of the crowd. The Informant can win if the Rioteer is dead, or whoever else the GM chooses to tie his fate to.

The Rioteer - The Rioteer is a neutral role. While they start off not knowing any rules, this can change very quickly. Each night, the Rioteer may choose to have a copy of the nightly synopsis, giving them the power of knowledge as far as who is what in terms of the power roles. What the Rioteer chooses to do with is knowledge is completely up to them, but it involves inciting arguments for whatever reason they choose. Whether this be creating arguments to condemn an actual bad guy, good guy, or whatever else they choose, that is what the Rioteer is known for. They are the ones that won't hesitate to jump in and create theories against other players, whether they be true or not. Unlike the Informant, the Rioteer chooses to not talk to the others in secret, believing that everything worthwhile to be heard can be told in front of everyone. At the same time, though, the Rioteer is equally as secretive as the Informant and prefers to keep their identity hidden from the others. The Rioteer can win if the Informant is dead, or whoever else the GM chooses to tie their fate to.

The Vengeful Villager: This role is very much like the fool; one that people should be careful in lynching. If killed/lynched, this role will die, but will each night pick a victim themselves to kill in revenge against those who voted against them/didn't save them. This role can only win alongside the rest of the villagers if they remain alive throughout the game. Once the person has been lynched, they may take a victim in the night for the rest of the game with nothing to stop them.

The Peaceful Villager: While this role is a villager and can only win if it remains alive with other villagers, it can only have its special ability once it's dead. Unlike the Vengeful Villager, the Peaceful Villager protects those who it believes the Vengeful Villager will attempt to attack next. In sorts, it acts as a sort of ghost defender that can pick one person in the night to protect. Like the Vengeful Villager, however, this is a role that once lynched, it will be around for the rest of the game. However, unlike the abilities of the Vengeful Villager (which affects anyone alive), the protection given by the Peaceful Villager will only protect against the attacks of the Vengeful Villager, and will not protect against other attacks.

Theme Suggestions
The Trial of Supers (Heroes) - A DC themed game with Superman, Wonder Woman and Green Lantern as defenders, the Martian Manhunter and Batman as seers, Catwoman as the Asassin, and Cyborg/Raven/Hawk Girl as the attackers.

The Trial of Supers (Villains) - A DC themed game with Solomon Grundy and Lex Luthor as defenders, Ares as the seer, Lobo as the Assassin, Clayface as the Doppleganger, and Peguin as the Saboteur.

Reservoir Dogs
You know, the classic debut of Quentin Tarantino. A diamond heist goes wrong and all of the players arrive at a warehouse and have to figure out what went wrong. Of course in the movie both Mr. Brown and Mr. Blue die during the course of the botched heist so I think the game could start out with a night phase. Roles: Undercover Cops: Wolves, Joe Cabot: Seer, Nice Guys: Defenders, Mr. Blonde (Optional): If there has to be an elder in the game, it would have to be played by Mr. Blonde, a loyal friend to Joe and Nice Guy Eddie. Reservoir Dogs: These would be your villagers who would be without powers. If you'd like, each player could be assigned a color like the men were in the movie.

[Benevolent Thomas]

I see little incentive to share my ideas here knowing that I'd like to host a game in the future. Unfortunately the next 4+ games have already been booked and I'm not going to commit myself to something that far down the line. I guess people who love playing this game, but don't want to host could contribute to this thread, but there is no guarantee that authors will even take notice to these suggestions. Most of them already have a theme and ideas about their game when they sign on to host a game so far in advance.

I do realize that I'm being a Debby Downer.

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2013 7:59:16 GMT -5 Benevolent Thomas said:

I see little incentive to share my ideas here knowing that I'd like to host a game in the future. Unfortunately the next 4+ games have already been booked and I'm not going to commit myself to something that far down the line. I guess people who love playing this game, but don't want to host could contribute to this thread, but there is no guarantee that authors will even take notice to these suggestions. Most of them already have a theme and ideas about their game when they sign on to host a game so far in advance.

I do realize that I'm being a Debby Downer.

While it's partly true that some GMs may not look at this thread when they're getting ready to host their games...you never know. Especially when it comes to rule changes and future GMs, they may look to it for rule changes that they think might help the game a bit. You don't have to share ideas completely related to the games that you're going to host, either. The suggestions I put up have nothing to do with games I'm wanting to host. I might use the duo roles in future games, but for this game and my next one I'm planning on, I don't forsee them making an appearance quite yet for myself.

[Free Guns For All]

So, I'm gonna tell everyone about my next WW game (game 30, if I'm not mistaken).

It'll be based on Slenderman. I have a story I've planned out, loosely based on the first part of Slender: The Arrival, but I'm save that for later. What I want to know is what you guys think of the roles, particularly the evil ones.

GOOD GUYS
Villagers: No special powers.
Policemen: The game's defenders.
Lauren: The game's seer.
Kate: The game's elder.

BAD GUYS
Slenderman: Main bad guy. Cannot be killed until his proxies are dead.
Proxies: Clones of Slender's victims under Slender's control. Must be killed before Slender can die.

[Free Guns For All]

Game 69: Porn theme.

[Benevolent Thomas]

Just because I like you guys so much, I've come up with a theme one of y'all could use free of charge.

Reservoir Dogs
You know, the classic debut of Quentin Tarantino. A diamond heist goes wrong and all of the players arrive at a warehouse and have to figure out what went wrong. Of course in the movie both Mr. Brown and Mr. Blue die during the course of the botched heist so I think the game could start out with a night phase.

Roles:
Undercover Cops: Wolves
Joe Cabot: Seer
Nice Guys: Defenders
Mr. Blonde (Optional): If there has to be an elder in the game, it would have to be played by Mr. Blonde, a loyal friend to Joe and Nice Guy Eddie
Reservoir Dogs: These would be your villagers who would be without powers. If you'd like, each player could be assigned a color like the men were in the movie.

[Deleted]

New role suggestions:

The Informant - The Informant is a neutral role. While they start off not knowing any roles, this can change very quickly. Each night, the Informant may choose to have a copy of the nightly synopsis, giving him the power of knowledge as far as who is what in terms of the power roles. What he chooses to do with this knowledge is completely up to him, but involves having the GM send messages to other players with "information" that he wishes to share. He could choose to message the good guys with this information, the bad guys, or even both. He can choose to even lie and distort his information and give the person a false idea of someone else. Due to his secretive nature the informant puts up a convincing face to the unsuspecting crowd. He can make people believe that he's one of them by creating theories against others, good or bad, and acting like one of the crowd. The Informant can win if the Rioteer is dead, or whoever else the GM chooses to tie his fate to.

The Rioteer - The Rioteer is a neutral role. While they start off not knowing any rules, this can change very quickly. Each night, the Rioteer may choose to have a copy of the nightly synopsis, giving them the power of knowledge as far as who is what in terms of the power roles. What the Rioteer chooses to do with is knowledge is completely up to them, but it involves inciting arguments for whatever reason they choose. Whether this be creating arguments to condemn an actual bad guy, good guy, or whatever else they choose, that is what the Rioteer is known for. They are the ones that won't hesitate to jump in and create theories against other players, whether they be true or not. Unlike the Informant, the Rioteer chooses to not talk to the others in secret, believing that everything worthwhile to be heard can be told in front of everyone. At the same time, though, the Rioteer is equally as secretive as the Informant and prefers to keep their identity hidden from the others. The Rioteer can win if the Informant is dead, or whoever else the GM chooses to tie their fate to.

The Rioteer and the Informant will be the only ones that won't appear on the nightly synopsis. They both normally cover their tracks fairly well so that they could never be caught and revealed to anyone who would want to get the dirt on them (but they can of course be voted out and revealed to others, scanned, or killed off by the WW/Assassin)

[Aersoldorf]

I'm still at a loss on how to do my first game as host, I have nothing to offer as to extra material.

[Deleted]

You don't have to have extra material to offer. If you have a theme you want to do, you can just use the normal roles for those, or you can always go back to the game's roots if you're at a loss for themes as well. Or you can use any of the above listed stuff as well.

[Duckyian Empire]

Jun 29, 2013 12:02:51 GMT -5 Aersoldorf said:

I'm still at a loss on how to do my first game as host, I have nothing to offer as to extra material.

I am also interested...but I don't know the "moving parts", that is, the roles.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2013 17:52:26 GMT -5 Duckyian Empire said:

Jun 29, 2013 12:02:51 GMT -5 Aersoldorf said:

I'm still at a loss on how to do my first game as host, I have nothing to offer as to extra material.

I am also interested...but I don't know the "moving parts", that is, the roles.

Common roles are:
Villagers - They just vote each day phase
Werewolves - They pick as a group a person to kill each night phase
Seers - They scan a player each night phase
Defenders - The protect a player each night phase

and sometimes these roles will show up:
Elder - They have two lives, and if they die, all good power roles lose powers (sometimes they know all the good power roles)
Assassin - They know all of the Werewolves, and can kill someone either each night, or a set number of times (depending on the GM)

The ones in 27 were for the most part altered forms of these (and the additional Gambler and Seductress), some with new powers, some with new rules attached to them, and the like.

[Duckyian Empire]

So I see. I have plans in my head about a future game, but they stray (somewhat) of their normal roles. I might add the new roles suggested, but I don't know yet.

[Deleted]

Well feel free to jump in and use any of the roles that are listed, whether in their normal or altered forms. And of course you're more than welcome to create your own roles to suggest or use as well. I'm considering using the Doppleganger and the Saboteur for the next game, just to test them out.

[Aersoldorf]

I find the Informant and Rioteer roles to be rather interesting, although I don't see much difference between the two. I also think that just one of them in a game could replace the traditional hunter/assassin. The Doppleganger would be difficult to implement - how could they be a wolf one night (and presumably vote with the pack) and then be a good guy the next?

[Duckyian Empire]

Jul 5, 2013 20:58:46 GMT -5 @tredania said:

Well feel free to jump in and use any of the roles that are listed, whether in their normal or altered forms. And of course you're more than welcome to create your own roles to suggest or use as well. I'm considering using the Doppleganger and the Saboteur for the next game, just to test them out.

Ah, ok. I'll attempt to finalize my ideas.

[Deleted]

Jul 6, 2013 9:12:52 GMT -5 Aersoldorf said:

I find the Informant and Rioteer roles to be rather interesting, although I don't see much difference between the two. I also think that just one of them in a game could replace the traditional hunter/assassin. The Doppleganger would be difficult to implement - how could they be a wolf one night (and presumably vote with the pack) and then be a good guy the next?

Tbere's not much difference between them except that one just starts arguments for no reason in the thread itself, while the other stirs discontent among the rest by sending PMs to players with what he "knows." So in that small difference, they bounce off each other.

The Doppleganger would be difficult to implement for sure, it'll definitely be a challenge. It'd just be literally each night they'd get a PM telling them that they've altered to a different form, and then asking them if they'd like to use that form's power if it's a power role. If they were a wolf, they'd vote on their own, and they're limited to the common roles (Villager, wolf, seer, defender) rather than going buck wild and giving them EVERY role to change into (example being, since their win is based on another specific role dying, they can't very well change into that role). Another role name for this would be a Shapeshifter, whichever one sounds better to the GM that would use them.

[La Vida De Sangre]

Oh, this is just the thread I've been looking for. As per usual, I have nothing of value to contribute, but I'm always ready to leech of soeone else's hard work, so may I suggest some roles I'm familiar with from the epicmafia site (the one site specifically created for playing ww/mafia)? Some of them are a little too complicated or just impossible to implement because of site mechanics (for example, one of my favorite roles, the ventriloquist, would be absolutely imposible here, though it's great on the em site - it allows you to speak as another player without them knowing it. When used correctly, it can make an inocent person look suspicious or even get them lynched. And when used by me, it's perfect for making lewd jokes on behalf of someone else. Perfect all around.) But here are some suggestions that could be interesting here:

The fool: a role that wins when lynched. It's interesting because the fool can't just say "lol guise lynch me", since everyone is aware there is a fool in a setup. It makes town carefully consider every lynch. The fool have to make themselves look suspicious in order to be lynched but not too suspicious (since actual mafia wouldn't give themselves away so obviously, so if you try to look too sus, everyone will just become aware you are the fool and your victory is gone). You also can't just lay low and be inactive in hopes of being lynched for that, since 1) it might alert everyone that you are the fool, 2) it's a lazy tactic and just makes everyone angry. Or at least me. Interesting thing about the fool is that he can side with the mafia. This might be a little too complicated to include, but here's an example: in a situation when there are 2 villagers, 2 mafia and the fool (fool is considered third party), the fool and the mafia vote for the fool and achieve majority of votes no matter what the townies vote. When the fool is lynched, the mafia have majority against town and both, mafia and the fool, win. The fool can also side with the village, however, in that case the fool himself doesn't win, just helps the town.

The cop: Not sure if we have this here, but the cop essentially checks a player during night and receives a message saying whether the player is aligned with the mafia or the villlage. He does not find out the person's role. Since this role can make a game really easy for town there are some factors that can make it more interesting. The hooker (though, personally, I'm not too big on the role name) is a mafia sided role that visits one person during the night and blocks their role abilities. Here's how it can make a game with a cop more interesting: if a cop finds a guilty on d1, technically he could claim and be protected from mafia/ww kill by the doctor (I don't even remember if we have this, but it's a role that protects one person from being killed during the night). However, he would most likely be hooked (and doctor can't protetc from hooker visits) and thus rendered useless for the rest of the game. As such, the cop has to subtly find a way to protect players he knows are innocent or also subtly lynch the mafia, without giving away that he's the cop. There's also some variations - paranoid cop (every player appears as guilty in his reports), insane cop (mafia members appear innocent in reports and villagers appear guilty) and naive cop (every player looks innocent in reports). The gist is that all of them appear as normal cops to themselves and to the rest of the players (if they are killed/lynched). In a setup with these roles, it's important not to blindly trust your reports and try to determinate which kind of cop are you. There's also miller and the godfather. Miller is a villager that appear guilty when a cop checks him and the godfather is a mafia member who looks innocent in cop reports. Mafia also has such roles as framer and lawyer. Framer can make one innocent person look guilty in cop reports and lawyer can make one mafia member look innocent. Obviously, all of these roles shouldn't be used at once and they are complicated but it makes for some fun playing. They make everything depend not on cop reports, but also on the players' ability to determinate whether the person is actually guilty or innocent.

Werewolf - a pretty complicated third party role. During the night the ww attempts to guess one person's role. If he guesses correctly, he "devours"/kills the player. If he doesn't, the ww is revealed to everyone and as a result, the townies lynch him. This might be a bit complicated since this role relies on epicmafia's practice of claiming - ie in a lot of games the players privately claim to a person who's somehow proven innocent, the mafia try to pretend to be a village role and the person who leads has to figure out which of the counterclaims are true and which are mafia. In that situation, the ww can pretend to be a village role and if they succeed, people claim to them and the ww can use the info to devour everyone. But it might be even more interesting here, since we don't usually claim and thus the ww would have to be really careful at deciding which player is which role. During the night, the ww can choose not to try and devour anyone since trying to guess someone's role on d1 would most likely be unsucessful.

The voodoo lady - another of my favorites; a mafia role. During the night she chooses on person and one word. if the person says that word during the day, they die. The word has to be longer than 4 letters (so no "the", "are" and the likes) and it can't be words like "lynch", "vote", name of a role or someone's name. Pretty difficult because it requires quick reaction from the host - as soon as the person mentions the word in his/hers post, they should be proclaimed dead before they can say anything else.

Lots more info about the game itself and roles can be found here:

wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Main_Page
wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Roles

The site is really fun (even if the servers are often more broke than me (and I just have like 100 tacos) and a part of the the userbase can be about as pleasant as getting poked in the eye with a cactus) so it could be interesting to try some of the things here.

[Witchcraft and Sorcery]

I like some of these... the fool and the voodoo lady are really great ideas. I'm trying to put together plans for a future game... those two would be great fun to add with some of Pengu's roles from WW27. I think the voodoo lady would be a great upgrade to the traditional hunter/assassin role.

[Aersoldorf]

I really like the expanded powers that Mal gave to the Elder in the current game

[Aersoldorf]

Although I can see that the bad team is probably none too happy about having 2 people who can scan each night

[Deleted]

I imagine so, but it's also a nice trade off as well since the Elder doesn't know all of the Power roles at the beginning. That means two different armies have to be built up until they either scan each other, or they both scan the same person/people. Until that point, though, you have two different armies and the wolves bickering amongst each other as to who the innocents really are.

[Witchcraft and Sorcery]

That's an interesting little twist. I'm thinking about hosting a game in the near future, and i want to incorporate some of your changes, Pengu, some new stuff, but not too much.

[Deleted]

Feel free to incorporate whatever you wish. The ideas I use and throw out in my games/in here are always up for the taking if people wish to use them. And I'll wish you luck for your hosting your first game.

[Deleted]

New role suggestions:

The Vengeful Villager: This role is very much like the fool; one that people should be careful in lynching. If killed/lynched, this role will die, but will each night pick a victim themselves to kill in revenge against those who voted against them/didn't save them. This role can only win alongside the rest of the villagers if they remain alive throughout the game. Once the person has been lynched, they may take a victim in the night for the rest of the game with nothing to stop them.

The Peaceful Villager: While this role is a villager and can only win if it remains alive with other villagers, it can only have its special ability once it's dead. Unlike the Vengeful Villager, the Peaceful Villager protects those who it believes the Vengeful Villager will attempt to attack next. In sorts, it acts as a sort of ghost defender that can pick one person in the night to protect. Like the Vengeful Villager, however, this is a role that once lynched, it will be around for the rest of the game. However, unlike the abilities of the Vengeful Villager (which affects anyone alive), the protection given by the Peaceful Villager will only protect against the attacks of the Vengeful Villager, and will not protect against other attacks.

[Duckyian Empire]

Wonderful ideas!

I have an idea for a game!

[Byzesion]

Since I just finished watching the series, here's a Twin Peaks theme.

Mortals
Dale Cooper (Elder) - A Special Agent from the FBI investigating the murder of Laura Palmer
Sheriff Truman (Defender) - Sheriff based in Twin Peaks
Deputy Hawk (Defender) - Native-American deputy and tracker
Log Lady (Seer) - Eccentric Twin Peaks resident whose log sees things
Windom Earle (Assassin) - Disgraced FBI Special Agent and escaped mental patient; seeks to control the Black Lodge for personal power; can taunt Dale Cooper through chess moves
Leo Johnson (Wolf) - Drug smuggler and abusive husband
Jean Renault (Wolf) - Head of Canada-Washington drug smuggling operation
Ben Horne (Wolf) - Wealthy and unscrupulous businessman; owner of the Great Northern Hotel, a department store, and a brothel/casino on the Canadian border

Entities
Killer BOB (Wolf) - An evil spirit inhabiting people in order to feed on fear and hate
MIKE (Hunter) - Former partner of BOB; Cut off his arm to sever his ties with BOB
The Man From Another Place/The Giant (Seer) - Inhabitants of the Red Room; They appear only to Cooper and speak in riddles

Rules

• Characters removed from the game by day may be killed, arrested, or hospitalized (in terms of flavor text; all three have the same consequence) at the GM's discretion
• The Man From Another Place and The Giant are two characters from a story perspective, but count as one role; the player starts with knowledge of who is Agent Cooper, but are limited to speaking only with that player as a night phase action
• If needed, Deputy Andy Brennan can be used as an additional defender; if more than three defenders are needed (which I don't think has happened yet on this board), just make someone up.
• For more wolves, pick someone from the character list on wikipedia; they've been corrupted by BOB and are now evil

GM Note
It is literally impossible to go too insane with the story.
One of the characters pregnant with an alien baby? Fine. (Bonus points if it's a guy.)
Log Lady says something cryptic and nonsensical? That was the entire basis of her character on the show.
Windom Earle secretly an evil time traveler putting wrong what once went right? It's been done, but sure.
Someone successfully canceling a subscription to the Columbia Record Club? Implausible, but why not?

Whatever happens will not be more bats**t than the events of the show.

[Deleted]

For some of the newer hosts that may be lost on ideas, remember that this thread will have ideas for various themes, rule changes, and the like. You're also more than welcome to add some of your own ideas that you may have that you'd like to share for other future hosts.

[Ater Nox]

I have a fairly unusual game idea floating around in my head that I won't be running. Long story short, everyone's goal is to get their team lynched first rather than lynching the other team. If anyone is interested in hearing it out and potentially running it, shoot me a pm and I'll send you the details.

[Benevolent Thomas]

Grandma (wolf): This is not actually grandma. The real grandma is inside of your belly. You've donned her clothes in an effort to fool the game's seer. If scanned, you will appear as a villager. Of course only Little Red Riding Hood is gullible enough to fall for this deception. If she had scanned you at any point of the game before dying, your role will be revealed to any remaining members of the seer's army upon her death.

Little Red Riding Hood (seer): Nothing too special other than the grandmother dynamic.

The Little Boy Who Cried Wolf (game mechanic): At the start of the game, the host will fill a bowl with blank slips of paper. 1 piece of paper for each player. During the course of the game, if a player contributes to the lynching of an innocent villager, one of these slips of paper will begin to feature their name. After each day phase, the host/narrator will draw a slip of paper out of the bowl. If a name appears, that person cannot be defended that night (of course no one but the host would know who said person is). They cried wolf and the village no longer believes their claims. When a player dies, any slips of paper with their name on it will be replaced with blank slips.

Bite (game mechanic): The wolf team will begin 1 short than they normally would. The game would begin with a night phase and the wolves would use that phase to bite one player, rather than killing them. This person will join the wolf team for the remainder of the game. If a villager role is chosen, it will not be replaced.

[Deleted]

A new role that I'll be introducing into Werewolf 38:

The Technician: The Technician is a relief role for either side (or a nightmare for the team affected). For up to three nights, they can use their power to render either all good guys, or all bad guys powerless. They share their win with either side only if their rival role is out of the game. Their power gets priority over all others, of course.