News and Current Events 201

[Mutanatia]

Hello everyone! THis next course is the sequel to the current course (News and Events 101). This one is a more intensive course: THe articles will be longer, there will be much more in-depth and though provoking discussion. THere will be one article a week. However, in order to accomodate how long this will be, we are going to break it up a little bit so that there are "Detours" so that it's not all news all the time.

Required assignments:
1) There will be one article a week, even when we have "Detours." There will be questions following the articles that I post, even for the "Detours." "Detours" will typically have only 2 questions for homework, just so I know you listened to or read them, and articles will have 5, but you will have to answer only 4 of them.

2) On days where it is the main cirriculuum (I know I spelled this wrong xD), students will be required to post an article. During "Detours," you can post a funny video, post some audio, or post a parody article. We will have a discussion of the fun stufff, but that's basically just to say how fun it is.

3) In addition to the 4 questions, each article will have at least one discussion question. These are aimed at fostering discussion between classmates. From time to time, I will definitely chime in and ask other thought-provoking questions. "Detours" will also have discussion questions, but again this is just geared to "What was your favorite part," etc.

Grading

Grading will be based on 3 criteria:
1) The article that you post: You must also give your opinion on the article
2) Discussion/participation
3) Homework questions


Course contents:
The following will be the course contents for this year (in this order):

1) Real Time with Bill Maher (This is a liberal comedian who has a political show, usually dealing with politics. There's also a discussion panel. For this, we'll have to rely on what's written on the show's site. Nonetheless, there are thought-provoking quotes as well)
2) NPR It's All Politics (A recap of domestic--if you're in the U.S--news from various points during the year)
3) 1st "Detour": NPR Sunday Puzzle (A collection fo brainteasers from NPR and New York Times (I think) puzzlemaster Will Shortz
4) NPR World Story of the Day (These range from topics about Bin Laden to U.S. Espionage against Iran, to the rebellion in Tunisia, and so forth)
5) Second "Detour": The Onion Radio News (This unit is rated NSFW due to usually language, though some times sexual themes--I'll try to stay away from that one Though released this year, some of them may be outdated because I occasionally hear them refer to "President Bill Clinton")
6) Third "Detour": Car Talk (People call up about their car problems and are made fun of for it:p)
7) NPR Wait...Wait...Don't Tell Me! (This is a combination of a detour and a serious unit. It recaps the news, both mainstream and offbeat from a given week. IT is presented in the form of a comical news quiz)
8) War News Radio (This deals with news from Afghanistan and Iraq)

So, that's 40 weeks of stuff for you.

This class begins on June 12th, and ends either March 4th or Feb. 26h)

[Mal]

A guy in his early 20s walks into the Registrar's Office. He's wearing jeans and dog boots, and a hoodie with the words "XKI University" across the front. He has a backpack with a laptop inside it and a cell phone in his hand. The basic tools of the serious student.

He gets the attention of the elderly woman behind the counter who has been working here since the Johnson Administration and hands her a "Drop/Add" slip and says"I'd like to add into the NCE2 class with Professor Mutanatia, please?"

The woman takes the slip and looks up something on the computer and says, "We'll just need to get your course grade from NCE1 as it's a prereq for this course."

(OoC: I miss college....)

[HumanSanity]

Mut told me that there was no prereq for this and I would like to try it out, I guess.

[Mal]

I already signed up, but figured I should post in this thread to confirm...

[Mutanatia]

Great to have you guys along (Mark will be here as well)! Classes will start next Sunday And I do mean Sunday

[Mal]

Jun 4, 2011 12:10:09 GMT -5 HumanSanity said:

Mut told me that there was no prereq for this and I would like to try it out, I guess.

There is no prereq. I put that in for dramatic effect.

[Twobagger]

I would like to sign up for this class.

[Mutanatia]

Welcome, class, to our first unit. This unit will last for 5 weeks and will be dealing with Real Time with Bill Maher. A bit of background for you:

This episode is #204 and was aired on March 4th, 2011. What was going on on March 4th, you might ask?

THIS UNIT IS RATED AS NSFW due to language and occasional, shall we say, “Sexual content.” This usually shows up in the “New Rules” page, but I would still advise you to exercise judgment here

List of events covered in this episode

Charlie Sheen
Libra
Infrastructure
Worldliness
Anti-Semitism
Equal Pay

What we are going to be doing is, rather than look at the whole episode like I am going to do, we’re going to draw manly from the quotes page, new rules page, and the overtime video.

Here is the link: www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/204-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/204-episode/synopsis/quotes.html

And here is the New Rules link:
www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/204-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/204-episode/article/new-rules.html

And here is the overtime link:
www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/204-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/204-episode/video/204-march-4-overtime.html/eNrjcmbOUM-PSXHMS8ypLMlMDkhMT-VLzE1lzmcu1CzLTEnNh8k45+eVpFaUsDFyMjKySSeWluQX5CRW2pYUlaayMQIAUmYXOA

To be fair and balanced here, it is worth noting that Bill Maher is a liberal comedian. As such, his words, and he words of his panelists, are not to be taken as “Gospel.” It is there own interpretation of things. Usually, in the show, it is about 1 conservative for every 2 liberals. 3 panelists, 1 conservative. On occasion, he will have it the other way around. It is exceedingly rare, however ,for him to have 3 liberals and 0 conservatives, or the other way around.

Homework Questions (to be PMed to me)—answer 3 of 5)
1) Look at this page: www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/204-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/204-episode/guest-stars.html
and tell me: Do you think the panel was biased in one direction or the other this time around? If so, in what direction?
2) According to Gavin Newsom, what is the connection between Charlie Sheen and Libya?
3) According to Ezra Klein, what is the problem with the infrastructure deficit?
4) According to the tongue-in-cheek quote by Tracey Ullman, why don’t Americans watch/want to watch Al Jazeera?
5) In the overtime segment, what is the best way to support the elderly population?

Discussion questions (answer all IN THREAD)
1) Find a quote and write 2-3 sentences about why you agree with it
2) What is your reaction to the final new rule about the difference between some Congressmen who cheat and have to leave, and other Congressmen who cheat and don’t?
3) Do you think that the idea of having regular, but “highly trained” citizens collecting DNA evidence, interviewing witnesses, etc. for misdemeanors is, as Maher says, a “crummy idea?”

Finally, feel free to respond to each other. Disagreement is exactly why we’re having this class. The one thing I will not, however, tolerate is the phenomenon of being “shouted down.” That is to say, please respectfully disagree with one another. ☺

ALSO, PLEASE NOTE: Classes will, from now on, be posted on a Saturday. You will have until the following Sunday to do the lesson.

[Mal]

1) I liked his quote about if Two and a Half Men doesn't get renewed, art will die. He's right with his sarcasm because we have been pretty much dumbed down over the years by the banality of the situation comedy. The show is so formulaic at this point, I can watch an episode and know how it will end as soon as I pick up the plot. As funny as it is, it just isn't what it used to be: original.

2) As to the second question, it's important to remember what the late, great Thomas J. "Tip" O'Neill said: all politics is local. In one district, cheating on your wife is enough to have you crucified, while in others, the guy repping you is so good at his job that he could rob a bank and kill 4 people in the process and still win. Boston had a mayor named James Curley who was so corrupt, he served time in state prison. While he was there, he was written in on so many ballots in the subsequent election that he won.

3)Where did he talk about DNA?

[Mutanatia]

3) was, I believe, in the podcasted episode. Question still stands though, given what I've told you.

*listen to podcast* EDIT! EDIT! EDIT! In this case, it is used for only low-level/petty crimes.

[Mutanatia]

As to your answer to #2, Malecia, and I'm speaking as a liberal/progressive-minded guy here (feel free to disagree ) and trying to "Channel my inner Bill Maher here : Do you think there is a certain amount of hypocrisy involve when the Republican PArty, or any party for that matter, that has as one of its tenets "support of family values,"--in this case, the Republican party, but maybe some international ones as well, does not ask a member who cheats on his on her spouse to then have that party NOT pressure said member to resign?

Asked a second, slightly different, way now: Do you think it is odd in the least that a "Family Values Republican" keeps his job after cheating on his wife while the first thing a more liberal-minded party (in that regard) asks its cheating member to do is to step down?

[Mal]

Jun 17, 2011 20:28:50 GMT -5 Mutanatia said:

As to your answer to #2, Malecia, and I'm speaking as a liberal/progressive-minded guy here (feel free to disagree ) and trying to "Channel my inner Bill Maher here : Do you think there is a certain amount of hypocrisy involve when the Republican PArty, or any party for that matter, that has as one of its tenets "support of family values,"--in this case, the Republican party, but maybe some international ones as well, does not ask a member who cheats on his on her spouse to then have that party NOT pressure said member to resign?

Asked a second, slightly different, way now: Do you think it is odd in the least that a "Family Values Republican" keeps his job after cheating on his wife while the first thing a more liberal-minded party (in that regard) asks its cheating member to do is to step down?

I think any "family values" politician that cheats is incredibly hypocritical and any "family values" party that makes excuses for cheating scumbags is a joke.

[Mutanatia]

Welcome, class, to our first unit. This unit will last for 5 weeks and will be dealing with Real Time with Bill Maher. A bit of background for you:

This episode is #204 and was aired on March 4th, 2011. What was going on on March 4th, you might ask?

THIS UNIT IS RATED AS NSFW due to language and occasional, shall we say, “Sexual content.” This usually shows up in the “New Rules” page, but I would still advise you to exercise judgment here

List of events covered in this episode
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Tucson Shooting
“Two Americas”
Canada


What we are going to be doing is, rather than look at the whole episode like I am going to do, we’re going to draw manly from the quotes page, new rules page, and the overtime video.

Here is the link: www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/198-episode/index.html

And here is the New Rules link:
www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/198-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/198-episode/article/new-rules.html

And here is the overtime link:
www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/198-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/198-episode/video/198-january-14-overtime.html/eNrjcmbO0CzLTEnNd8xLzKksyUx2zs8rSa0oYc5nLlTPz0mBCQckpqf6JeamsjFyMjKySSeWluQX5CRW2pYUlQLFAFv-Fzg=

Now that you’ve gotten acquainted with Bill Maher, let’s try to delve deeper into his shows…


Homework Questions (to be PMed to me)—answer 3 of 5)
1) Does this show seem to blame the Tucson shooting on people having a gun, or crazy people having a gun?
2) According to Elizabeth Warren, what is the role of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in the credit crisis?
3) According to James Carville, what has killed the most jobs in Modern American History?
4) In the overtime segment, who contributes to the myth that “patriotism does not require sacrifice?”
5) According to the largest New Rule, how are the Founding Fathers NOT “just like us?”

Discussion questions (answer all IN THREAD)
1) Find a quote and write 2-3 sentences about why you agree with it
2) React to this quote: “[The Republicans] are always asking the Muslims to denounce their extremists. And I agree with them. But they don’t take that note and do it among their won. They don’t denounce their own extremists.
3) Do you believe that mental health examination wold have stopped the tragey in Tucson?
As always, feel free to respond to each other. Disagreement is exactly why we’re having this class. The one thing I will not, however, tolerate is the phenomenon of being “shouted down.” That is to say, please respectfully disagree with one another. ☺

ALSO, PLEASE NOTE: Classes will, from now on, be posted on a Saturday. You will have until the following Sunday to do the lesson.

[Markanite]

Class 1

1) I agree with Gavin Newsom's quote on equal pay. Just because there are women rising to the top of career ladders, doesn't mean that every woman is getting equal pay in the workplace, there are still major inconsistencies with Equal pay that need to be addressed. I was also think its good that he brought it up using politicians as examples, worldwide there are still shortages of women politicians.
2) I think he makes valid points and funny comparissons, essentially its a rule for one and then a different one for another , which isn't right. If they do their job well, they shouldn't be forced out, the electorate can do that themselves later if they see fit.
3) Yes it is, that is taking the police forces jobs away, it could also lead to more corruption, lack of communication between departments and I really don't see it working

[Markanite]

Class 2

1) I struggled sort- of to find something I agreed with, or to choose one. However I think Martin Short's comment on Canada was very good, he raised the point that looking at places and seeing what works there could have an effect on policies, working policies can be shared across borders, but then again what works in one place, may not work in others.
2) I agree to a degree, you can't have rules for one and rules and for others, however how many members of the Republican party flew planes into towers? I see where the Republicans are coming from but also see the point made in the quote too. Not everythings black and white.
3) No, that man was out to do what he did and an examination wouldn't have stopped him, maybe delayed him depending on what came from the examination

[Mutanatia]

Questions for Mark:

Class 1: Would you call the Republicans hypocrites then? Who do you think "polices" themselves better, Republicans or Democrats?

Class 2: About the point about extremists... do you think that people who say "I want my country back," don't acknowledge the President as being born here, AND show up to rallies with Obamitler ( To coin a term (Obama's likeness as Hitler)) can be just as dangerous in their own way as a terrorist?

[Markanite]

I think Yes they can be Hypocrites, but that applies to both sides. Well looking at the examples he gave, it seems the Democrats are more consistent with their members resigning

Good points and yes they can be dangerous in a different way but do you really think they'd kill someone and believe its right? I sorta doubt that (Not saying all muslims believe this, they don't, only the extreme terrorists do). I, personnally, wouldn't say the "I want my country back" is dangerous, but I may be interpreting it differently to others.

I don't think I really explained myself well there, my main point is I hate violence and would hope people wouldn't descend into it

[Twobagger]

It's discussion time.

1) To paraphrase, "there is a misconception in America that patriotism no longer requires sacrifice." I agree completely. I think that in America, we have the notion that patriotism requires making other people sacrifice. We see this whenever we go to war and our government, made up of some of the wealthiest people in the world, votes to allow thousands upon thousands of other families' men and women to sacrifice their lives overseas. Then those same people vote to increase military spending to make it possible for these people to sacrifice themselves for an even longer period of time. And to wrap it all up, those same people turn around and authorize tax cuts for the wealthy, so that they and their wealthy donor friends don't have to foot the bill for the wars they've just authorized.

2) I'm not really sure what this quote is getting at, here. You don't really know that someone is an extremist until they make the news by saying or doing something insane. And then, when something like this does happen, it's in the Republicans' best interest to move away from them as fast as they can. Case in point: in the aftermath of the shooting, we saw several top Republicans showing support for Rep. Giffords and denouncing the shooter. It's not really surprising either: many of them are elected officials and don't want people thinking it's a good idea to shoot elected members of government.

3) Maybe. I don't necessarily believe that it would have, but in this case I think there's a better than average chance for a few reasons. First, people knew who Jared Loughner was before the shooting happened. Earlier that academic year, he'd been kicked out of his community college for spouting off crazy things, like the school being illegal, and he wasn't allowed to return until cleared by a mental health professional. So school officials had identified him as a threat before he went on his shooting spree.

[Mutanatia]

General discussion question for all of you:
I don't know exactly how factually based this is (it is Bill Maher and all ), but I believe I heard someone in that show saying that Loughner had tried to purchase a gun at a different Wal-Mart before buying the gun from THAT particular Wal-Mart. Do you think that that would have been avoided had we had mental health screening in place?

[Twobagger]

Jun 25, 2011 8:04:42 GMT -5 Mutanatia said:

General discussion question for all of you:
I don't know exactly how factually based this is (it is Bill Maher and all ), but I believe I heard someone in that show saying that Loughner had tried to purchase a gun at a different Wal-Mart before buying the gun from THAT particular Wal-Mart. Do you think that that would have been avoided had we had mental health screening in place?

Do you mean mandatory mental health screening as a prerequisite to purchase a handgun?

[Markanite]

Same question as Twobagger Mut

I am also sort've shocked you can buy a gun at Walmart!

[Mutanatia]

(I think it was Wal-Mart.)

Yeah, mandatory Mental Health screening as a prerequisite for buying a gun is what I meant. Sorry about the confusion >.< The follow-up question I have to that is: It's most likely an invasion of privacy. However, sometimes privacy needs to be (somewhat) sacrificed for safety. Examples of this include a full-body scan at the airport so there's no one blowing up the plane, and so forth. The question is: In this case, is it a sacrifice that is worth it?

(Next class coming up in an hour! )

[Mutanatia]

Welcome, class, to our first unit. This unit will last for 5 weeks and will be dealing with Real Time with Bill Maher. A bit of background for you:

This episode is #205 and was aired on March 4th, 2011. What was going on on March 4th, you might ask?

THIS UNIT IS RATED AS NSFW due to language and occasional, shall we say, “Sexual content.” This usually shows up in the “New Rules” page, but I would still advise you to exercise judgment here

List of events covered in this episode
Natural Disasters
Unions and the Economy
Newt Gingrich
Extremists and Religion
Art and Funding
Elections
Libya


What we are going to be doing is, rather than look at the whole episode like I am going to do, we’re going to draw manly from the quotes page, new rules page, and the overtime video.

Here is the link: www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/205-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/205-episode/synopsis/quotes.html

And here is the New Rules link:
www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/205-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/205-episode/article/new-rules.html

And here is the overtime link:
www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/205-episode/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/205-episode/video/205-march-11-overtime.html/eNrjcmbOUM-PSXHMS8ypLMlMDkhMT-VLzE1lzmcu1CzLTEnNh8k45+eVpFaUsDFyMjKySSeWluQX5CRW2pYUlaayMQIAUmYXOA==

Let’s go a little bit deeper and try to dissect him a bit in the discussion, shall we?


Homework Questions (to be PMed to me)—answer 3 of 5)
1) What is Bill Maher’s reaction to the Japanese earthquake?
2) According to Tom Davis what has “hurt the unions?”
3) What is the panel’s general stance on Libya?
4) (New Rules—Wage against the machine): What does Bill Maher suggest for an alternative to “Secret Millionaire” and “Undercover Boss” and why?
5) (Overtime): How does Dana Loesch justify comparing Health Care advocates to terrorists?

Discussion questions (answer all IN THREAD)
1) Find a quote and write 2-3 sentences about why you agree with it
2) This is actually true: I work at a book publishing company. For the past few months, Japan has been ordering all the books we have on disasters. Why do you think this?
3) So far, do you think Bill Maher (or at least his character) is more Liberal or more Progressive?
4) Look at the Newt Gingrich quotes. I think that this says a lot about his campaign. Looking back at Gingrich’s campaign, could you see the train wreck coming already?
5) Do you think that Glenn Beck is “potentially dangerous?”
As always, feel free to respond to each other. Disagreement is exactly why we’re having this class. The one thing I will not, however, tolerate is the phenomenon of being “shouted down.” That is to say, please respectfully disagree with one another. ☺

ALSO, PLEASE NOTE: Classes will, from now on, be posted on a Saturday. You will have until the following Sunday to do the lesson.

[Markanite]

I'll be getting my homework done tonight Mut, just letting you know I haven't forgotten!

[Markanite]

1) "Hospitals and Highways save lives, art is just a diversion" I fully agree with this, although funding for art programs etc is needed as it helps protect and show our culture, at times of Economic hardship we can't have people dying, police beign underfunded, schools going broke etc. There has to be a priority and art isn't it at this time. (Although I wouldn't want them cancelled altogether, they are beneficial to society in many ways).

2) Panic mostly, they're doing exactly what I would do, try and learn as much about natural disasters so you can best survive them if they happen again

3) Depends on what you view as a Progressive or liberal, I think hes more Progressive as the things he say just remind me of a Socialist

4) Yeah I can, he can't shake these off and the fact he was one of the first declared but is still lagging behind Huntsman, Palin and Cain (Never held an office) is shocking. Hes not in the best position.

5) No , although I can see why people think that. He is a little nuts but I think thats more to pander to his audience and keep the evangelicals and hardline republicans watching him. I watched an episode once and he definitely keeps you interested! I don't think hes dangerous though.

[Mutanatia]

Class, I'm going to post the next one on either tomorrow or Monday. it will be due one week from when I post it. Also... *pokes Malecia* Where are your discussion questions?

Here is a discussion question for Mark while we're waiting: Whose politics are "Worse" (Defined by you ): Ireland's or the USA's? Also, Mark, just in case something comes up in something : Are you from Northern Ireland or from Ireland (UK)?

[Markanite]

Depends sometimes I love Irish politics but I think the USA's is more interesting due to the clear differences between the parties and the overall participation in the USA is a lot better than in Ireland.

I am from Northern Ireland but I'm an Irish Nationalist so I can call it either Northern Ireland or the North (I prefer the North). I support Northern Ireland leaving the UK and reunifying with the Republic of Ireland.

[Mutanatia]

THIS UNIT IS RATED AS NSFW due to language and occasional, shall we say, “Sexual content.” This usually shows up in the “New Rules” page, but I would still advise you to exercise judgment here

Welcome, class, to our first unit. This unit will last for 5 weeks and will be dealing with Real Time with Bill Maher. A bit of background for you:

This episode is #213 and was aired on May 13th, 2011. What was going on on March 13th, you might ask?

List of events covered in this episode
Bin Laden
Afghanistan and Pakistan
New Gingrich (Again! )
Race
Republican Presidential Candidates
Energy Subsidies and American Exceptionalism
Disasters


This is a little out of sequence in terms of historical events, basically because this one I thought was the second-best one. Basically, this one comes 1 (I think?) week after Bin Laden’s death. The #1 will deal with the week OF Bin Laden’s death.


Here is the link: www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/213-episode/synopsis/quotes.html

And here is the New Rules link:
www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/213-episode/article/new-rules.html

And here is the overtime link:
www.hbo.com/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/index.html#/real-time-with-bill-maher/episodes/0/213-episode/video/213-may-13-overtime.html/eNrjcmbOYM5Xz89JccxLzKksyUwOSExP9UvMTWUu1CzLTEnNh4k75+eVpFaUcDIysjGySSeWluQX5CRW2pYUlaayMQIATB0XOA==

Let’s go a little bit deeper and try to dissect this event?


Homework Questions (to be PMed to me)—answer 3 of 5)
1) Using your knowledge of Islam (or at least Bin Laden/the Taliban’s version of it), why does Bill Maher think that Bin Laden is a “hypocritical prick?”
2) According to Richarde Clarke, is the US actually on the “road out” of Afghanistan?
3) Describe the bias, if there is any, on this panel.
4) Overtime: According to Richard Clarke, “How much credit does Bush deserve for getting Bin Laden?” Why?
5) New Rules: Why does Bill Maher think that you’re “Not a Christian” if you celebrated Bin Laden’s death?

Discussion questions (answer all IN THREAD)
1) Find a quote and write 2-3 sentences about why you agree with it
2) What is Bill Maher’s general view of practicing Christians (see: New Rule)? Do you agree with it?
3) The train wreck that is Newt Gingrich continued this week. What do you think Bill Maher’s opinion is of him thus far? Do you agree?
4) According to Richard Clarke, “the Pakistanis are paranoid, and they’re such pathological liars they don’t even know when they’re lying anymore.” Do you think these “lies” are deliberate, and if so, should the US reconsider its relationship with Pakistan?
5) What is Bill Maher’s (and the panel’s) opinion of the Republican Presidential field?


As always, feel free to respond to each other. Disagreement is exactly why we’re having this class. The one thing I will not, however, tolerate is the phenomenon of being “shouted down.” That is to say, please respectfully disagree with one another. ☺

[The Ilium]

Well, i'm not a student, but i've recieved a request from Mutanatia himself to post my opinion about Discussion question #2.

Now, I wouldn't say that if you celebrated Bin Laden's death, you aren't a true Christian, but God loved Osama Bin Laden just as much as he loves you, however much of a sinner he was. God still loved him. But He was sad that he sinned so much. And while He loves all people, He becomes upset when people sin. There are many verses in the Old Testament of the Bible that describe God's wrath upon those who sin. But, now Bin Laden is being punished for his sins, because I doubt he even attempted to repent ever in his life. But about Bill Maher saying that you wouldn't be a Christian, that is outrageous. If it's acceptable that an Atheist can come out and declare someone isn't a good Christian because they celebrated the death of a horrible person, then I'm Hillary Clinton. I don't think that someone is a good or bad Christian based on whether or not they miss someone thats dead, but it's more, simpler things. (i.e. do you pray, do you repent, do you go to church, do you not sin, etc.) But, he is a very smart man, and if he has to say something I'm more than willing to listen. However, I'm going to have to disagree with him there.

Anybody care to elaborate?

[Mutanatia]

If you're still there, Ilium: Let's draw this out a bit: Do you think that most or just some or no Christians are exactly what he said: fans of Christ rather than active practitioners of "Doing what Jesus would do?"