The New Israeli Peace Plan

[Parthini]

Since we're engaging in political threads, I have decided to change the scene about 500 (I think) miles west to Israel. So what do you think of the new peac plan?

GPP

[ALEN]

what's the actual plan?? are they pulling out troops or something???

[Parthini]

As far as I know, Sharon is agreeing to move out of Gaza but he wants to make some Jewish settlements in the West Bank permanent.

GPP

[Odracir]

I don't think it'll work. I think that the Palestinians are so mad at the killing of the two Hamas leaders, that its going to take something special to make them happy. I think that Israel needs to pull out of Gaza and the West Bank completely and totally, then Palestine can declare independence and live next to Israel in peace.

[Parthini]

.....I don't. Peace will never work there if the Arabs don't quit trying to wipe out every Jew on the planet. I really think the Palestinian government is full of a bunch of terrorists. That doesn't mean I think all Muslims or even all Palestinians are. I just think Hamas, Arafat, etc. are terrorists just like Al-Queda. The Israelis have every right to that land. They are just defending themselves from every Arab state around them who would like a chunk of Israel. As a matter of fact, they've already done it twice.

GPP

[Boktavia II]

I don't think it'll work. Giving up the Gaza Strip was a step in the right direction, but I think that the fact that no Palestinian leaders were involved in this at all will just get them angrier, and cause more violence. I'm not saying that Arafat isn't already a terrorist, or should be doing the things he does, or anything. I just don't think it's ever going to calm down in Israel until two sane, non-terrorist leaders of Palestine and Israel just sit down and negotiate peacefully. And the US should for the most part stay ou of it. The UN formed Israel and put the Jews there, the UN should be the ones helping these two parties with each other.

(As a question, I've never understood this: if the Gaza Strip and the West Bank were to become Palestine, it would mean that Palestine would be in two seperate pieces right? So how would people get from the Gaza strip to the West Bank without having to go through Israel, and dealing with passports, customs and, possibly, prejudice/violence? Other than airplane, of course.)

[Kellopalopalis]

The Palestinian government is full of terrorists? It's difficult to distinguish terrorists anymore. The Isreali government has been killing innocent civilians in an attempt to kill terrorists. Their accuracy has not been very high. They are also conducting assassinations against Hamas leaders now. I don't see what this accomplishes. The only results will be needless death and inciting more violence from Palestinians. People who would lead Hamas are not in short supply; for each Hamas leader assassinated, another would take his place. This cycle of violence has to stop. As for the new peace plan, it is a step in the right direction, but more will be necessary.

[Henneth annun]

I believe jerusalem should be own by the UN olny and keep the peace. I do not thik that will happen though.

[Kellopalopalis]

Henneth said:

I believe jerusalem should be own by the UN olny and keep the peace. I do not thik that will happen though.

I agree. Jerusalem is such a holy place to Judaism, Islam, and, not to mention, Christianity. It would be a shame if either Palestine or Israel were to solely own it.

[Down under there]

I also agree. Jerusalem has been filled with violence throughout history.
But no group will give up their claims to it.

[ALEN]

lol maybe europian christians need to send out another crusade to re-claim the holy land lol JK

because i.m young i don't know much about these issues but why did the un put jews there?
did no one own that land at that point?
and why is israel part of euro-vision song contest?(i think that's what it's called) (by that i mean are they part of europe? )

[immoralvirtues]

Israel was created here because at the time the land really didn't belong to anybody. The whole region(th e Middle East) had just been seized by the UK and France. Since neither wanted the hassle of any more colonies the region was split into different countries, and it was decided that Israel(at the time inculding what is now the West Bank and Gaza) would become a Jewish state and the rest would be returned to Arabic monarchies. That's what I remember from high school anyway.
Back to the topic, I don't think the idea to pull out of Gaza is good one for Israel for a few reasons:
1. My brother lives there.
2. Pulling out would seem to concede a victory to all the terrorist organization operating there.
3. It reinforces the wrongful idea that the Arabs living there are entitled to a right of return to a country they never had. Removing settlements and soldiers seems like a prelude to handing the area over to the PLO(again).
I don't want to have to explain why I think a Palestian state in Israel is a bad idea, but I will if anybody here has strong feeling the other way.

[Punkerz]

I said it before and i'll say it again: the only real terrorists here is Israel. They "got" land after WWII for their own country from the UN, that land belonged to the Palestinians.

It's their God given right to take back what was once theirs and i don't care how they do it.
And the USA isn't better, they support Israel, so i say: get Bush and Sharon out of office and maybe then it'll be better

[Alfonia]

I don't believe it'll work, it never does.
Israel should be an example of a good nation in an area with many dictatorships, but I think they forgot that.
The Palestinian government is also totally screwed up, it can't even control its own people...
The UK should have kept the land, somehow I think that things would have been better that way.

[Henneth annun]

I do not think so. The british are kind of bad at keeping track of recources and a little ignorant. I beilieve It should have Jews, palistinians, and christins living there.

[Alfonia]

Yes, but considering that the UK is a much better-working nation than Israel and Palestine, they would ensure that jews, muslims and christians could live there I think. Cocky... lol

[immoralvirtues]

In response to Punkerz:
The land did not belong to the Palestinians. The was no Palestinian country there, the Arabs living there did not identify themselves as Palestinian because the was no country of Palestine. Also, I don't understand why they hate Israel so much. Israel is the only Middle East country where an Arab can vote in a democracy! How is that oppression?

[Lebmania]

we all know that Israel exist thousands of yrs ago..at that time there was no palestinians...After a lot of war and crusades,jews was enforced to go to europe.in the second war Hitler start killing those ppls,that's why the Un gave them back there land..they belong to this land...so when they came back,most of them had a lot of money,so they start bying lands from the palestinians,a yrs after the palest realized that all there lands was sold to the Jews,so as i think,it was their mistake...so after that they start to fight the israely ppl to get back their land...it was too late !!! in 1967,some arab country declare war against the state of israel,Egypt and Syria was the biggest enemy..the Israely forces crush them in 6 days...after that,the palestinians stayed alone,so they escaped to south Lebanon...Lebanon received them as a neibors that's all...but after a while they asck the Lebanese goverment to let them have arms so they can fight back and take palestine...at the first time,Leb Gov didn't agree,but after a lot of presure a meeting was held in Egypt and convince the Leb Gov to let the palest to get armed...what happend next ?! they start to fight against the Lebanese army,they start putting bombs all over Lebanon,they killed a lot of inocent ppl,there idea was to occupy more Lebanese territory instead of palestine...after that The lebanese forces start fighting back and kick there a$$ses...Well if i keep writing i want stop,because it's a long long story...so for me..i don't care about the palestinians,i do care about the civilian who are dying,in the both sides..and or your info guys..no arab country like the palestinians,as u know,Jordan kills a lot of them,because they had the same problem as Lebanon had..so don't beleive what u see on TV...it's just a mirror when they said that they care...Ithink there is one solution for this conflict..Jerusalem should be under the UN control...
one more thing,palestinians dosen't want peace because while they fight again israel,a lot of fanatics around the world r sending money to support there cause...they see it like a business after all.

[Parthini]

Strangly, I could understand that...

Anyways, I don't think Jerusalem should be put in UN control because the UN should not take contol of cities. Then it would just become another world army and I don't ant that.

It should be given to the Israelis because it is their only homeland. Palestinians are just Arab Muslims who are pissed because Britain gave the country to some Jews. The Jews are defending what is rightfully theirs. It was given to them by God in their Bible. Some may consider that to be an illegitimate reason, but is a much better reason than the Palestinians because the Jews have had Israel since before the Romans. They have a long history with that region that is being interrupted by a bunch of greedy terrorists.

GPP

[Lebmania]

agrreed

[Lebmania]

beside have the right to defend herself no matter how...for example,when u r fighting with some one,he can't tell u,"Oh no !! u can't hit me in my head or in my testicles..."war is war..everything is allowd to defend urself.

[Henneth annun]

Greedy Tessorists is not the word for palestinians, Mohhamedd said to pray twoard jerusalem and you should have more respect twoard muslims.

[Lebmania]

i don't think he ment that all palest r terrorist...there is terrorist all over the world,not nececerry muslims...i know a lot of muslim guys who r very special ppl.but please don't say that the palest r angels !!!

[Parthini]

When I say the Palestinians are terorists I mean that Yasser and Hamas and those people who run the Palestinian Govt. are terrorists.

Secondly, I have plenty of respect for Muslims. The Muslims were at one time capable of overruning the whole Western world. They were much more accepting and overall good people. They still are now. However, they are being governed by very bad men who are crazy fanatics. No civilized western country (that I know of) has ever tried to systematically wipe out a whole race within their own country in the past 50 years. Neither have they sent young men who might grow up to become scientists and discover teh cure for cancer to strp explosives to their bodies, walk into a cafe or bus, and detonate the bombs on their bodies. Neither have they taken food aid and kept it for themselves while the rest of the nation is dying of hunger. The Muslims were once a great people. They are now hindered by unaccepting men who only wish to become more powerful and use religeon as an excuse. Turkey is an excellent example of what a Muslim nation could be. They have a great democracy, good economy (it recently was hit hard but is recovering), but they still are brutal to the Kurds. I am in no way disrespectful to Islam. I have read parts of the Koran.

And Muhammed told them to pray to Mecca not Jerusalem. Jerusalem is is the third holiest city. It was where Muhammed acended into heaven atop the Dome of the Rock. It is also where Jesus died. Jesus was one of the most important Prophets. When he was on the Cross, God excanged Jesus for Judah.

Oh, and Leb. Use better grammer. I helps.

GPP

[Alfonia]

Let's get this straight on who lived there the first:

First the Area was controlled by Arabian (not muslims) nomads, but you couldn't consider them a nation.
Then the area was invaded by Egyptian Pharao Seti I somewhere during the late 1300's or early 1200's BC.
Then during the late 1200's BC the land is conquered by Israelites.
The Israelite state splits in 928 BC into the two kingdoms Israel and Judah. Israel gets conquered by the Assyrians in 721 BC, and Judah gets conquered by the Babylonians 586 BC, all citizens are deported to Babylonia, but in 539 BC they can all return home again.
Then in 333 BC Alexander the great conquers the area, and after his death Syrians and Egyptians take control.
In 165 the Maccabees revolt and forms an independent state. But in 63 BC the area gets under roman rule....

So that determines: The first people in the area were arabs. The first religion used in that area that still exsists is judaism. In a way both sides have a "right" to this country.

[TheSensitiveNewAge]

Orginally, Mohammed said to pray towards Jeresulem but that was changed because the early Moslems were snubbed by Jems in the city. That is what I have heard, I could very easily be wrong.

[ALEN]

nah it has always been towards mecca becuase it is the most holiest city in islam

[TheSensitiveNewAge]

hhmm..my bad. I wonder where I got that, thanks ALEN.

[Down under there]

Muhammed was in the desert as part of a roaming, idol-worshipping tribe when he had his revelation that there is only one god. He persuades all the other tribes of this (or takes their idols by force, I don't remember) and then resolves to enlighten the masses. The first city he comes to is Mecca, where the people go on an image- and idol-destroying spree. That's why Mecca is holy (at least how we learned it in class, correct me if I'm wrong, ALEN)

[Alfonia]

I may not be an expert on Islam, but this is what I have read:

Mecca was Muhammads hometown and he started to preach there after he met with the angel Gabriel.
Muhammed was married to a very powerful woman, Khadijah, so the leaders couldn't do much about him.
After Khadijah died however, the rulers of Mecca tried to kill him as he had got too many followers and was considered a threat.
So in 622 he left for Medina, and that's also where the Muslim calendar starts. During his exile in Medina, Muhammad told his followers to stop praying towards Al-Aqsa in Jerusalem and start praying towards Mecca for some reason.
I think Mecca is holy because Muhammad was born there and because he told his followers to pray towards Mecca.