Meh, I don't feel like breaking my golden rule of not posting in GP threads yet.
"As of late, the political climate in 10000 Islands has between deeply divided by those open to cooperating with other defender organizations and interacting with the international sphere and, at the other end of the spectrum, the isolationists." Sorry, but this is complete and utter bullsh*t.
My feelings about the current situation aside, anybody who thinks XKI is divided now clearly knows nothing about the region's political history. Take a look back at the period when the Assembly of Nations was a thing, things got heated quite often in those days.
The best thing about UDP jokes is that I don’t care if you get them or not.
I think the article is interesting as it shows XKI is out of step with the norms of defender regions:
1. TRT points out that the ban was done on the Founder's judgement alone. This is an uncommon judicial style in the modern ns world.
2. Before BT ran afoul of Grub, he was actively co-operating with other regions and used IRC. Something that previously set XKI apart.
The very fact that some Islanders don't see TITO being separate from "the defender sphere" actually illustrates they are isolated enough to not even be aware of it.
There are actually many aspects that XKI needs to change to conform, and it will be interesting to see whether that ever happens. We could in the future see XKI delegates forming closer relationships with the FRA for example, and gradually loosen the hold that Grub has on the Islands.
I have never come to a region that places higher value on loyalty, and Islanders seem to have a deep commitment to the government and its expectations. Who is to say if that is a good or bad thing?
Post by The Bear Pits (old account) on Aug 16, 2014 15:17:03 GMT -5
Well, at least they got to the bottom of it before something too cataclysmic happened, I'm sure I won't be the first to say that it's an opportunity to find a stronger delegate.
I think the article is interesting as it shows XKI is out of step with the norms of defender regions:
1. TRT points out that the ban was done on the Founder's judgement alone. This is an uncommon judicial style in the modern ns world.
2. Before BT ran afoul of Grub, he was actively co-operating with other regions and used IRC. Something that previously set XKI apart.
The very fact that some Islanders don't see TITO being separate from "the defender sphere" actually illustrates they are isolated enough to not even be aware of it.
There are actually many aspects that XKI needs to change to conform, and it will be interesting to see whether that ever happens. We could in the future see XKI delegates forming closer relationships with the FRA for example, and gradually loosen the hold that Grub has on the Islands.
I have never come to a region that places higher value on loyalty, and Islanders seem to have a deep commitment to the government and its expectations. Who is to say if that is a good or bad thing?
I think the article is interesting as it shows XKI is out of step with the norms of defender regions:
No, in point of fact the opinion of the author of the article is that XKI is out of step. That doesn't make it true. Please don't believe everything that Unibot says just because he says it. He lies sometimes, if it's to his advantage.
1. TRT points out that the ban was done on the Founder's judgement alone. This is an uncommon judicial style in the modern ns world.
Um - how would the author know whether this was true or not? He doesn't. He certainly is not privy to anything of note here. Not that the author ever let the truth of a situation keep him from twisting it to conform to whatever BS he is selling. You may have noticed that he routinely slants things to his own advantage.
The very fact that some Islanders don't see TITO being separate from "the defender sphere" actually illustrates they are isolated enough to not even be aware of it. There are actually many aspects that XKI needs to change to conform, and it will be interesting to see whether that ever happens.
To conform to what? To be like everybody else? To what you think we should be? Or to what Unibot III thinks we should be? Is there a manual somewhere that says what we need to conform to? How will we know we are properly conforming? Where are the conforming rules posted? In the nicest way I can say this, we are what we are - so why don't others conform to our expectations instead?
We could in the future see XKI delegates forming closer relationships with the FRA for example, and gradually loosen the hold that Grub has on the Islands.
I stand corrected on this, per Ananke and Gruffydd ap Llywelyn 2 - goes to show I don't know everything, for sure, or even close.
Last Edit: Aug 17, 2014 3:52:23 GMT -5 by Woonsocket
I think the article is interesting as it shows XKI is out of step with the norms of defender regions:
No, in point of fact the opinion of the author of the article is that XKI is out of step. That doesn't make it true. Please don't believe everything that Unibot says just because he says it. He lies sometimes, if it's to his advantage.
1. TRT points out that the ban was done on the Founder's judgement alone. This is an uncommon judicial style in the modern ns world.
Um - how would the author know whether this was true or not? He doesn't. He certainly is not privy to anything of note here. Not that the author ever let the truth of a situation keep him from twisting it to conform to whatever BS he is selling. You may have noticed that he routinely slants things to his own advantage.
The very fact that some Islanders don't see TITO being separate from "the defender sphere" actually illustrates they are isolated enough to not even be aware of it. There are actually many aspects that XKI needs to change to conform, and it will be interesting to see whether that ever happens.
To conform to what? To be like everybody else? To what you think we should be? Or to what Unibot III thinks we should be? Is there a manual somewhere that says what we need to conform to? How will we know we are properly conforming? Where are the conforming rules posted? In the nicest way I can say this, we are what we are - so why don't others conform to our expectations instead?
We could in the future see XKI delegates forming closer relationships with the FRA for example, and gradually loosen the hold that Grub has on the Islands.
Or, you know, they FRA could work to form a relationship with XKI. But that won't every happen, will it?
I'd agree with all of that except your last bit. From what I can tell TITO and FRA are getting on fairly well and having a very healthy working relationship. FRA (at least I hope so) wouldn't dream of trying to interfere with anything Grub does internally within his own region, and certainly has no intention of trying to get Grub to loosen any grip he may or may not hold on the Islands. XKI has been around almost since NS's inception, whatever Grub is doing seems to be working as XKI has been the most stable and active regions throughout NS's history.
I'm pretty sure that Sauron is in the clear, unless he decided to go all genius again
The Silmarillion; Chapter 19: Now Sauron knew well, as did all in that land, the fate that was decreed for the hound of Valinor, and it came into his thought that he himself would accomplish it. Therefore he took upon himself the form of a werewolf, and made himself the mightiest that had yet walked the world.
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I think the article is interesting as it shows XKI is out of step with the norms of defender regions:
Whose norms? How many defender regions have a normal procedure for dealing with rebellious delegates? Besides, is that actually bad? The problem of marching in a tight formation is that you all can get taken out by the same bomb.
1. TRT points out that the ban was done on the Founder's judgement alone. This is an uncommon judicial style in the modern ns world.
I point out that the sky is an worrying shade of dark green. This is an uncommon coloration of sky in the modern world. And false.
So not that different, really.
2. Before BT ran afoul of Grub, he was actively co-operating with other regions
You mean like we continue to work with FRA and RIASF?
and used IRC. Something that previously set XKI apart.
I assume you mean the lack of use set us apart. Which was for a good reason. In fact, the use of it caused BT some problems.
The very fact that some Islanders don't see TITO being separate from "the defender sphere" actually illustrates they are isolated enough to not even be aware of it.
See above about FRA and RIASF. Additionally, Mordor's founder frequents our forums and YDS's founder came from XKI. I'd prefer to be separated from UDL. I was once part of a cooperative liberation with them. Or would have been, if they hadn't jumped way early.
There are actually many aspects that XKI needs to change to conform, and it will be interesting to see whether that ever happens.
Since when has conformity actually been a good thing? If we're going to all conform to each other, why do we have separate regions? As the old saying goes, "Different strokes for different folks."
We could in the future see XKI delegates forming closer relationships with the FRA for example, and gradually loosen the hold that Grub has on the Islands.
Yeah. That guy who has held up the region since its early days, who was so influential that he was grandfathered in as Founder. Have him let go. Right.
I have never come to a region that places higher value on loyalty, and Islanders seem to have a deep commitment to the government and its expectations. Who is to say if that is a good or bad thing?
Me. It's good. This loyalty keeps our region strong and lively, especially since the Islanders have plenty of opportunities to weigh in on the way the region is run.
Mal, TRT is The Rejected Times, currently Uni's propaganda rag with some TRR news thrown in.
Post by Woonsocket on Aug 16, 2014 19:14:19 GMT -5
Sauron ap Llywelyn 2, I stand corrected on the cooperation with FRA part. I certainly don't know everything. I was just...angry, I guess...at the entire tone of the post so I snapped. I changed it on my original post now - Thanks to you and Ananke for making the point.
Actually, I should add that makes me glad. We should work together as much as we can, so it's good that we are.
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I think the article is interesting as it shows XKI is out of step with the norms of defender regions:
This is true, we walk to a different drummer. Not a bad thing actually. Different and norms are defined by who and what? We hold dear to traditions and chain of command certainly and change does not come easily however it does come when it is needed. This is not one of those times.
1. TRT points out that the ban was done on the Founder's judgement alone. This is an uncommon judicial style in the modern ns world.
TRT assumes the ban was done on the Founders judgement alone. Assumption is not your friend.
2. Before BT ran afoul of Grub, he was actively co-operating with other regions and used IRC. Something that previously set XKI apart.
BT was our sitting Delegate and his duty was to co-operate with other regions. IRC as has always been our policy is not to be used unless permission was given to do so. We keep communication between regions to their forum or regional RMB. Thomas was very aware of this and it played no part in his banning. Our previous delegate also maintained co-operative communication with other regions without the use of IRC and therefore without breaking any rules
The very fact that some Islanders don't see TITO being separate from "the defender sphere" actually illustrates they are isolated enough to not even be aware of it.
TITO is separate. You seem to be under the illusion that is a club we want to be a part of. It is not. We are a military organization and while we do actively work with other defending orgs and enjoy doing so we take no part in the popularity contest that seems to arise constantly. We defend because it is what we do , not because of some false expectation held by others that we do it to fit in.
There are actually many aspects that XKI needs to change to conform, and it will be interesting to see whether that ever happens. We could in the future see XKI delegates forming closer relationships with the FRA for example, and gradually loosen the hold that Grub has on the Islands. You seem to be confused. FRA does not hold an embassy here and therefore it is not the Delegates duty to maintain a relationship with them. TITO and FRA have at present a very good working relationship and I expect this will be ongoing.Our delegate works with other regions but has no jurisdiction in TITO relations.
I have never come to a region that places higher value on loyalty, and Islanders seem to have a deep commitment to the government and its expectations. Who is to say if that is a good or bad thing?
There are actually many aspects that XKI needs to change to conform, and it will be interesting to see whether that ever happens.
Since when has conformity actually been a good thing? If we're going to all conform to each other, why do we have separate regions? As the old saying goes, "Different strokes for different folks."
I think this sums up what makes us different from other org's. Perhaps the game has evolved to the point that separate regions only exist to keep the r/d game play alive. TITO has always stood against the bullies and thugs of NS and works to ensure the game remains about more than r/d.
As for the shots at Grub, if you went to the sources TRT (mis)quoted, you'd soon realize that this wasn't done on a whim but was in fact done by a vote. It's also been made clear that this was a decision which took a long time to be made.
If we could stop using bright yellow font, that'd be great. I think my eyes are bleeding.
Last Edit: Aug 16, 2014 22:33:03 GMT -5 by The Candy Lane
Veni, Vidi, Liberati
Where there is no vision, the people perish. - Pv 29:18
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Zeus's beard! I take a couple weeks vacation and come back to all this!? Boy that's a nice smack of ice water to the face. I'm still dazed.
When I heard on the RMB that BT had been banned, at first I thought they meant from the game by some uptight mod trying to mess with 10KI. But this is even worse. In a way I guess I'm glad I'm not on the Council anymore. I can't imagine those conversations have been pleasant recently.
But we'll survive. We haven't had a challenge yet that could bring us down. And despite the problems, I'm glad to be in this region. I'd take it over any other in the game any day.
"Order without liberty and liberty without order are equally destructive." ~Theodore Roosevelt
Post by Matilda Love on Sept 13, 2014 0:37:36 GMT -5
I am stunned by what I am reading here, I had to re-read to make sure my eyes weren't playing tricks.
Ardreas is right. 10000 Islands is a made of the goodly stuff. It has survived and thrived as well, I am pleased and proud to name this region as friend in Canada.
Cheers to you all!
The landscape with its violent, pure colours dazzled and blinded me.
Paul Gauguin