Trump's Removal from Office

[Dorab]

Are you for or against, Trump being removed from office?

[Sargon Reman]

I'm for it but I think it's a long shot that the Republican Senate will do it. I think the Democrats should have waited until they had a majority in both chambers. Now if this backfires it will look silly and Trump could have a better chance of winning the election.

[Louisistan]

These debates are very America-centric. But that's probably because us Europeans don't create any threads

Back in 2000, Germans thought you lot were absolutely batshit crazy for electing George W. Bush as President of the United States. Let me tell you, compared to Donald Trump, Bush Jr. looked very much like a statesman. The whole "America First" hogwash is just an excuse for him to shit all over any international patrtnership the U.S. have. And the audacity your government displays to then criticize us for not praising the great Donald and not adhering to his shrubbery policies is just plain ignorant and plays a huge part in the resurgence of Anti-Americanism taking place all over Europe.

And so, I'd very much be for removing DJT from Office. Yes, I am aware that means we need tod eal with President Mike Pence, but on an international stage, I do believe Pence will be much easier to deal with. Yes, I realise his ultra-conservative policies will probably be even worse for America, but there you go: "The world first!" - You brought this on yourself.

That being said, it's just not going to happen. The U.S. are far too divided along ideological lines for any objective trial to take place and even I'm not sure the evidence is even there. The House hearings did seem a bit thin to me. Anyway, as I said, it's not going to happen. And what's more, Trump will certainly be re-elected in 2020 once again putting all of Europe into a stupor of not getting it. Because what we want clearly does not count and is of no concern to the American Electorate.

May god have mercy on your Union.

[Sargon Reman]

This image certainly speaks a thousand words. This is my favorite political ad against Trumps international policy:

[Jabberwocky]

Remove him lock, stock and barrel; ban him from planet Earth. Alas, I fear that will not happen.

[Tanzoria]

Jan 20, 2020 10:15:08 GMT -5 Sargon Reman said:

I'm for it but I think it's a long shot that the Republican Senate will do it. I think the Democrats should have waited until they had a majority in both chambers. Now if this backfires it will look silly and Trump could have a better chance of winning the election.

Their next opportunity to have a majority in both chambers, they'll also be hoping to kick Trump out making the whole thing moot

[Dorab]

Jan 20, 2020 10:15:08 GMT -5 Sargon Reman said:

I'm for it but I think it's a long shot that the Republican Senate will do it. I think the Democrats should have waited until they had a majority in both chambers. Now if this backfires it will look silly and Trump could have a better chance of winning the election.

They should not wait, because if they had a majority in both, people would complain that it was a truly partisan removal. A Republican Senate ensures there is good reason to.

[Dorab]

I would like to hear from somebody who is against.

[Klopstock]

I've never been in favor of impeaching and removing an American president during my lifetime -- and it's been discussed and more for Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump. Thinking about it, there are a few reasons.

First, impeachment is a constitutional process for unusual situations and I don't believe it should be used as a mere partisan tool. Impeachment is not the American version of no confidence motions in a parliamentary system -- let alone some huge dislike button. There's a reason impeachment has fallen into disuse in the parliamentary systems that have (had) it. We have fixed terms of office, elections, and checks and balances, separation of powers, and more to fill the gap.

Second, while I certainly disagree with many presidential policies and personalities I rarely find them to be unreasonable to the point of impeachment. Presidents are elected by the entire nation, one of only two such officers, and have unparalleled democratic legitimacy in our system. We also live in a two party system where, like it or not, the presidency and executive will change hands generally every eight years. I don't agree with Democrats wanting to impeach every Republican president or Republicans wanting to impeach every Democratic president. That's not our democracy.

Third, American presidents are both heads of state and heads of government. Those dual roles, I believe, tend to obfuscate and confuse impeachment debates. Opposition to a president as a head of government is a normal part of any democratic process, as is support from a governing party. Yet often our notions of how a president should 'act,' 'behave,' and the like really come down to qualities we expect in a head of state. We use terms like 'dignity of the office,' 'honorable,' 'conduct unbecoming,' and such terms more in that sense. And those two roles and how we think they should be represented tend to muddle in impeachment debates. I think Trump is an unusual head of state. I do not think he is a particularly unusual head of government for the times.

I know my view is different, but I happen to believe the American system is doing well right now. While impeachment has consumed a lot of attention, the system still works to pass budgets, ratify trade agreements, appoint judicial and executive officers, and make changes to tax law, federal sentencing reform, and more. Partisanship is inexorable, but democracies are built to run effectively with and sometimes in spite of us it. I personally believe people should spend less time watching the arena and more time viewing things in the senate house.

[HumanSanity]

Jan 25, 2020 12:33:10 GMT -5 Klopstock said:

Opposition to a president as a head of government is a normal part of any democratic process, as is support from a governing party. Yet often our notions of how a president should 'act,' 'behave,' and the like really come down to qualities we expect in a head of state. We use terms like 'dignity of the office,' 'honorable,' 'conduct unbecoming,' and such terms more in that sense. And those two roles and how we think they should be represented tend to muddle in impeachment debates. I think Trump is an unusual head of state. I do not think he is a particularly unusual head of government for the times.

I don't think this is entirely wrong. But I also don't think it is at all the point. Impeachment and removal is a redress for high crimes and misdemeanors, which the investigation into meetings the President had regarding Ukraine clearly demonstrates he has committed. The threshold is not whether the system works or not. The threshold is whether the President has committed an impeachable offense, and there is no credible defense to the idea he has done so.

[Sargon Reman]

As a long time Democrat I really feel like they are screwing this up with how they are handling it. Why didn't they interview all possible witness like Bolton before sending it to the Senate? I think Trump did something wrong, they had hundreds of legal scholars even say so. This might prove costly in the 2020 election if he is acquitted. I think you should still vote Democrat or dont vote at all.

[Marxist Germany]

The problem with the impeachment process was the Democrats selectively subpoening witnesses and the lack of witnesses in general; the whole investigation lasted no more than two months, and now Pelosi is not proceeding with the trial, further proving that it was a political stunt and not an impartial investigation.

[Louisistan]

Jan 27, 2020 14:43:48 GMT -5 Marxist Germany said:

 now Pelosi is not proceeding with the trial

Have you been vacationing under a rock? The trial has been under way for a week

[Tanzoria]

Complaining about Democrats not subpoenaing witnesses who could prove Trump's innocence is a transparently bad faith argument given that McConnell intends to call no witness during the senate trial

[Dorab]

Donald Trump has been acquitted by the senate.

[Tanzoria]

Feb 5, 2020 17:12:20 GMT -5 Dorab said:

Donald Trump has been acquitted by the senate.

GOP senators will live and die by that vote