Is there an authentic self?

[HumanSanity]

In interactions with others, individuals often put on a "mask" of how they want to present themselves--often for strategic reasons: i.e. to give off a certain impression, convince people of something, etc.

When interacting with different people and in different situations, the masks people wear change.

This begs the question: Is there an authentic self independent of the "masks" we are constantly rotating for other people?

[Jabberwocky]

To quote Walt Whitman:
"Do I contradict myself? So I contradict myself.
I am large; I contain multitudes."

We have different relationships to different people, so we present ourselves differently to each. Each of the others view us differently, and we don't have control of that. A case in point:
For 25 years, my wife's extended family had a marginal idea that I play a guitar. Last year a few of them came to see my band. Instantly, their perception of me changed. The point is that we don't control how others perceive us, although we do influence it with the "masks" we adopt.

[Louisistan]

I recently started meditating. Well, not so recently, somewhat like 8 months ago.

Anyway: When you're alone with yourself, the self you experience then and there (for example during meditation), that is your authentic self. That doesn't mean the "masks" you put on are necessarily unauthentic. They might be, but that's a choice made by your authentic self. And as Jabber rightly pointed out, who we are (or rather how we behave) will change in different contexts, that doesn't make it unauthentic. Because anything, if viewed from different perspectives, will look different.

[HumanSanity]

I'm not very concerned with finding an authentic self or expecting authenticity from other people. The collection of "masks" I use when interacting with others are perfectly adequate for me and don't leave me lacking a central concept of self that I feel leaves me lacking in my life in any way. But, based on the masks other people show me ( ) they seem very concerned with the idea of being authentic and interacting with people who are authentic, which is why I raised the question.

Feb 12, 2020 8:52:59 GMT -5 Louisistan said:

I recently started meditating. Well, not so recently, somewhat like 8 months ago.

Do you feel as if the "self" you discover through meditation can be defined outside of its relationship to other people? I'm sure it would be impossible to explain to me because language is inherently relational to other people, so I'd have to trust your take on it.

[Jabberwocky]

I'm with Louis in that your are most likely to discover your core being when alone. But even then, you see yourself differently at different times. Still, there is an authentic self beneath the masks. That self can yet be fluid, not static, with different facets.

[Louisistan]

Feb 12, 2020 14:56:29 GMT -5 HumanSanity said:

Do you feel as if the "self" you discover through meditation can be defined outside of its relationship to other people?

Ah, well, yes and no. If you spend some time observing your self you'll note that your relationships to other people are heavily influenced by it. The attitudes and behaviours you show towards yourself are often the same ones you display towards others. Changes to your self will influence your interactions with others. As indeed some experiences with others might change your self.

[The Mad Surfer]

Doh! I thought he said "authentic ELF!"

[HumanSanity]

Feb 12, 2020 16:08:23 GMT -5 Louisistan said:

Feb 12, 2020 14:56:29 GMT -5 HumanSanity said:

Do you feel as if the "self" you discover through meditation can be defined outside of its relationship to other people?

Ah, well, yes and no. If you spend some time observing your self you'll note that your relationships to other people are heavily influenced by it. The attitudes and behaviours you show towards yourself are often the same ones you display towards others. Changes to your self will influence your interactions with others. As indeed some experiences with others might change your self.

That's very interesting to me. It seems like you're able to isolate the way the self is and relates to others but not like you can define the self outside of those relationships with others?

I realize that's shifting the question a bit, but I always find it hard to describe what is my *self* without referring to how my self is relative to other people.

[Warris]

"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

—Oscar Wilde

Some might say it is who we are when nobody is watching that defines us. Some might say that our thoughts define who we are, not our actions, because our actions are influenced by consequence. But there is an excellent quote. A conversation. I think it is from a book, but I do not know which one. This is not the direct thing, but it's the gist of it.

"You would have done the same thing."

"No I would not have. I would have thought the same thing, but I would not have done it."

"What's the difference?"

"You mean you don't know?"

This quote is thought provoking. There is also a meme I saw a while back that is more insightful then you would think. I don't remember the picture, but the caption was "Me combining my different personalities when my friend groups are in the same place" or something like that. Which is interesting. Maybe we are truly ourselves when we are all ourselves, combined to juggle all our friends in all our interactions. Maybe we are who we are when everyone is watching. Or maybe we're not.

Any one of these things could be write. Maybe they're all right. Are you not yourself when you are adapting your words and actions to fit the situation? Humans are adaptable creatures. There is not a time when we are not adapting. So in that case, are we never ourselves?