SC Proposal: Commend Northrop-Grumman

[HumanSanity]

Commend Northrop-Grumman

A resolution to recognize outstanding contribution by a nation or region.

Category: Commendation

Nominee (nation): Northrop-Grumman

Proposed By: makdon

The Security Council,

Darkly noting the great importance that knowledge of the world’s nations plays in facilitating foreign affairs, and that the significance of this information being readily available and effectively collated cannot be overstated, for without it relations cannot feasibly be conducted in any reasonable manner; the ramifications for such mismanaged relations would surely be dark,

Applauding Northrop-Grumman and their shadowy archivists for their commitment to the arcane task of maintaining well organized and frequently updated indexes of both nation’s capitals and leaders, which are truly ancient, having been maintained by Northrop-Grumman for fifteen and sixteen long years respectively,

Remarking that the two mysterious indexes believed to have originated somewhere within the dark realm of Northrop-Grumman possess the following merits compared to the regular procedure of finding and viewing a nation’s information panel:

The indexes of Northrop-Grumman contain useful references to information nation’s have chosen to provide that is relevant to their capital or biographical of their leader, which is both utile and edifying,

Nations newly founded are not able to display their capital or leader, so Northrop-Grumman’s indexes can be the only way to discover them,

The indexes allow for the quick finding of information on multiple nations, since they are all held in one place,

Knowledgeable also of the fact that Northrop-Grumman’s indexes have additionally inspired a separate catalog of national sports that employs the same methodology and layout, and cognizant that there is no standard display for national sports, so without the index foreign nations are left completely in the dark,

Intimidated by the extensive work of Northrop-Grumman in creating the Universal Network for the Integrated Transactional Economy (UNITE), a national and transgalactic computer system that registers all citizens, organizations of citizens, and foreign visitors through the use of a personal identification card, and which provides numerous advantages by providing easy and efficient flow of information and government services,

Astounded by Northrop-Grumman’s labor in chronicling countless collections of invaluable accounts of historic events that would otherwise have been lost after a shift in record keeping abandoned all previous years’ knowledge, a vast swathe of which Northrop-Grumman’s archivist managed to preserve and are still available for all of NationStates today,

Confident that in light (or as the case may be, darkness) of these contributions, which exemplify both long lasting commitment and frightening technical prowess, there can be no question that Northrop-Grumman is overly deserving of recognition,

Hereby commends the most dark nation of Northrop-Grumman.

This is the discussion thread. To cast your vote, go HERE

[HumanSanity]

I'm not super committed one way or the other on this one. It's clear that N-G's biggest contribution to the site is the Dark Theme, but also the Dark Theme is illegal to reference under SC rules. As a result, the resolution itself is reading as insubstantial and their contributions as insufficient. As a result, I'm leaning AGAINST. However, I voted For Condemn The Free Joy State in spite of the limitations the author had in actually explaining things due to SC rules, so it's possible I could be convinced here as well.

[Paffnia]

Eh, that all acknowledged, the dark theme is quite a piece of work for the game by a non-staff-member, and I'm inclined to reward it. FOR.

[Porflox]

What exactly did they do? Develop the dark theme? I was really confused by the resolution (something about indexing).

[HumanSanity]

Jan 11, 2021 9:14:28 GMT -5 Porflox said:

What exactly did they do? Develop the dark theme? I was really confused by the resolution (something about indexing).

The developed the dark theme--that's what is effectively being commended--but the dark theme is forbidden by SC rules because it references the contribution of site staff (arguably, there's some debate there). As a result, the resolution reads in a haphazard and confused way because it's trying to Commend them anyways, while also saying the word "dark" a bunch

[Porflox]

Oh, well, in that case, I don't like how the proposal reads (it's really confusing) so voting against

[Eastern New England]

Even though the proposal reads weird out of context, creating Dark Theme along with keeping index(es) on nations' leaders and capital cities updated for the past one and a half decade is certainly commendable. I'm inclined to vote FOR.

[Shy Guy]

I don't really think something can be considered well-written if I need to ask Makdon what something actually means. You can't type the words dark theme but this is a very poor way to dance around it.

Secondly, the part about UNITE does not seem to be relevant at all? It is a roleplaying thing NG used only a few times in one roleplay (source) and is hosted on a decently read dispatch. It is not one of the big indexes but just a good bit of worldbuilding, which isn't really the most commendable thing (especially since the rest of the proposal is not about worldbuilding at all).

Against.

[Jabberwocky]

What's the advantage to the dark theme?

[Silvedania]

Jabberwocky, Nothing, it just looks really good and its a very nice addition to the site.
Also, their work on the indexes is commendable.
For.

[Eist]

Holy shit, there's a dark theme O.o Kewl

[HumanSanity]

Poll is currently 7-6 with 1 Delegate's Prerogative, which has been applied against, bringing it to 7-7.

That allows me to break the tie. If it was early in the vote I would just withhold my vote but since I have a standing Against vote I will hold my vote unless there is a change in the poll

[Free Las Pinas]

I fully agree with Shy’s post, and am also against. For the record, I do believe the dark theme script that Northrop-Grumman made before they became a member of the site staff is commendable material, and I wish it could actually be mentioned. After all, they weren’t a member of site staff yet. However, I don’t believe any of the other things mentioned here are good enough to merit a commendation.

[makdon]

Jan 10, 2021 13:07:29 GMT -5 HumanSanity said:

I'm not super committed one way or the other on this one. It's clear that N-G's biggest contribution to the site is the Dark Theme, but also the Dark Theme is illegal to reference under SC rules. As a result, the resolution itself is reading as insubstantial and their contributions as insufficient. As a result, I'm leaning AGAINST. However, I voted For Condemn The Free Joy State in spite of the limitations the author had in actually explaining things due to SC rules, so it's possible I could be convinced here as well.

Jan 11, 2021 20:23:19 GMT -5 Free Las Pinas said:

I fully agree with Shy’s post, and am also against. For the record, I do believe the dark theme script that Northrop-Grumman made before they became a member of the site staff is commendable material, and I wish it could actually be mentioned. After all, they weren’t a member of site staff yet. However, I don’t believe any of the other things mentioned here are good enough to merit a commendation.

To address both of these points, I'd like to ask a question. What is more important, that the text of a proposal is able to show their commendability, or that they are commendable? It seems ya'll think the latter. Now, I can understand that the writing of a proposal is important (I'd be a hypocrite not too, given my support for repeal commend TWI and repeal commend Halo), but these aren't normal circumstances. There isn't a way to convey that NG created the dark theme other than allusion, and so I feel the for that point, commendability should come first.

Jan 11, 2021 11:37:39 GMT -5 Shy Guy said:

I don't really think something can be considered well-written if I need to ask Makdon what something actually means. You can't type the words dark theme but this is a very poor way to dance around it.

Secondly, the part about UNITE does not seem to be relevant at all? It is a roleplaying thing NG used only a few times in one roleplay (source) and is hosted on a decently read dispatch. It is not one of the big indexes but just a good bit of worldbuilding, which isn't really the most commendable thing (especially since the rest of the proposal is not about worldbuilding at all).

Against.

To my recollection, you didn't ask me what this means, yet seem to understand it completely More seriously, I think you can agree that it's rather hard to make clear what a commendation for NG's dark theme is for, given the circumstances. And so, unless you're simply opposed to the idea that such work such be commended, I don't really think this is a fair way to approach it. How would you have written this in a more elegant way?

To your second point, NG is a great roleplayer. They've done it for a really long time, and are good at it. And I wouldn't have wanted to leave that out. I felt UNITE was a good representative piece of that. I feel like a lot of people's perception of this proposal is that it only works if you know about dark theme, but I think NG is accomplished in more ways than that, and I don't want that to be dismissed.

[Free Las Pinas]

To address both of these points, I'd like to ask a question. What is more important, that the text of a proposal is able to show their commendability, or that they are commendable? It seems ya'll think the latter. Now, I can understand that the writing of a proposal is important (I'd be a hypocrite not too, given my support for repeal commend TWI and repeal commend Halo), but these aren't normal circumstances. There isn't a way to convey that NG created the dark theme other than allusion, and so I feel the for that point, commendability should come first.

My concern wasn’t exactly that the SC rules don’t allow you to mention it, and that you shouldn’t have hinted at it repeatedly. It was that the dark theme alone isn’t commendable, and the other things mentioned didn’t make it better in my point of view.

That said, the work put into the indexes is beginning to seem somewhat better, and I might change my vote later.

[Porflox]

I just feel like there is a reason why the mods don't want to mention Site Staffer work, especially when NG's work on the dark theme IS SPECEIFICALLY MENTIONED to be illegal on the rules page("Note that there are some "niche" staff roles such as Northrop-Grumman's work on the Dark Theme that are still covered by this rule"). Also, I don't think their indexes, while good, are commendable and am voting against.

[HumanSanity]

Administrative note: in the event of a tie I will vote Against.

The poll is currently tied 8-7 with 1 Delegate's Prerogative, which will be held Against, making the vote 8-8.

In my campaign I stated I would break any forum poll tie using my prerogative, which means the result is still Against. The alternative tie breaking mechanism is to use the regional vote, which is also overwhelmingly against.

[HumanSanity]

Substantive note:

Jan 12, 2021 20:36:25 GMT -5 makdon said:

To address both of these points, I'd like to ask a question. What is more important, that the text of a proposal is able to show their commendability, or that they are commendable? It seems ya'll think the latter. Now, I can understand that the writing of a proposal is important (I'd be a hypocrite not too, given my support for repeal commend TWI and repeal commend Halo), but these aren't normal circumstances. There isn't a way to convey that NG created the dark theme other than allusion, and so I feel the for that point, commendability should come first.

1. The text of a proposal matters a great deal. Resolutions serve as historical records of someone's contributions. I'm fine re-rolling on a new draft unless there are unique political circumstances, which in this case there is not. Regardless of the admissibility of the dark theme, there is a unique problem of your over use of "dark" language making the proposal borderline incomprehensible, which is just bad writing.

2. I'm not convinced the Dark Theme should be commendable. It is a huge piece of work, but it is also a contribution to the site made as a member of the site staff and I have some degree of discomfort admitting into the record something that the rules did not admit.

Jan 12, 2021 20:36:25 GMT -5 makdon said:

To my recollection, you didn't ask me what this means, yet seem to understand it completely

Do you care to explain where Shy missed something? The draft has to explain the work, otherwise the draft has to be rewritten. I do not understand what it is that N-G did entirely, so I couldn't tell you how to write it better.

Jan 12, 2021 20:36:25 GMT -5 makdon said:

To your second point, NG is a great roleplayer. They've done it for a really long time, and are good at it. And I wouldn't have wanted to leave that out. I felt UNITE was a good representative piece of that. I feel like a lot of people's perception of this proposal is that it only works if you know about dark theme, but I think NG is accomplished in more ways than that, and I don't want that to be dismissed.

This is absolutely true, although in my opinion, and as presented, it does not merit a Commendation on its own. To reach that threshold you are reliant upon the hidden dark theme clause, which I am not willing to cast a vote on.

Thanks for stopping by

[HumanSanity]

Alright, the vote is now 9-8 vote (including the Delegate's Prerogative vote) so I am switching to For