2008 South Ossetia war

[The United Antarctic]

Well, it appears that Russia is back trying to reclaim it's world power status.

Basics of the war:

Georgia invades South Ossetia in an attempt to reclaim the breakaway republic.

Russia foresaw the conflict, and gave the majority of S.O. citizens Russian citizenship.

Russia invades S.O., then pushes onwards into Georgia.

Most of the world condemns Russia, and a cease-fire is called, even though Russian troops press on into Georgia.

Both sides issue propaganda against each other.

Discuss

[Sheynat]

Apparently the Russians are just openly taking potshots at reporters. One Georgian reporter was literally shot live on television. (She was only grazed, thankfully.) Another group of Turkish reporters came under fire and were taken captive for a few days. And according to this article, Russian soldiers have taken to robbing Georgian banks.
www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1563317.ece

[Estayland]

Somehow, I can't help but think this is all George Bush's fault...

But seriously, the Russians are saying that the US is helping Georgia because Dick Cheney wants McCain to win. The Georgians have helped the US a lot in Iraq, so I wish we would return the favor.

But, what I still dont understand, is why isn't Florida and South Carolina helping? Is it because college football is coming up?

[SovietPrussia]

Well Russia doesn't seem to be honouring the ceasefire and I don't think there's much anyone can do. The UN can't do anything because guess who's on the security council and unless we want the world to glow bright green, attacking Russia is out of the question. I also hear Russia is threatening Poland over the missle defence thing. So I'm stuck on a solution.

[TheSensitiveNewAge]

What I've been wondering is why Georgia invaded South Ossetia in the first place? There's been a lot of talk about Russia hitting first and hard with cyber attacks crippling Georgian air defenses and continuing to screw up Georgian websites. Was Russia doing cyber attacks before invaded South Ossetia? I don't mean to excuse Russia's behavior but as I heard of this, it sounds like Georgia got cocky and pulled a huge stupid.

[Mukeli]

Aug 20, 2008 11:54:43 GMT -5 TheSensitiveNewAge said:

What I've been wondering is why Georgia invaded South Ossetia in the first place? There's been a lot of talk about Russia hitting first and hard with cyber attacks crippling Georgian air defenses and continuing to screw up Georgian websites. Was Russia doing cyber attacks before invaded South Ossetia? I don't mean to excuse Russia's behavior but as I heard of this, it sounds like Georgia got thingyy and pulled a huge stupid.

It seems to me that Georgia certainly got an itch and decided to start the conflict. The fact that the Western media is painting Russia as the eternal bad guy is also disturbing. I don't mean to infer that Russia doesn't have the potential to be aggressive, but I find it hard to believe that Russia would risk the consequences that are playing out now (e.g. Poland signing the missile agreement and Ukraine offering their radar). They aren't idiots.

[Otupia]

I think im probably going to just sit back and watch the cold war start up again.

[Goldenloser2241]

Hows that seat treating ya Andy?
To me its really quite impressive how diplomacy has devolved in less than a decade.

[New Dracora]

Aug 15, 2008 18:18:00 GMT -5 Estayland said:

Somehow, I can't help but think this is all George Bush's fault...

Because he set a precedent when he invaded Iraq?

Anywho, from what I can gather South Ossetia is a seperatist region that has strong ties with Russia who were the only ones in the international community to recognise their declaration of independance from Georgia. At the time Russian 'peacekeeping' forces moved into South Ossetia and have been there ever since.

Naturally most Georgians weren't very happy with this (which might explain the pro-western political leanings) but unwilling to poke their former masters with a big stick they stood back while the Russian's handed out russian passports and citizenship to their South Ossetian protectorate.

So now... some time has pasted and a new Georgian president is elected on an election campaign built strongly on nationalism. one of the election promises is to do something about breakaway rogue regions such as South Ossetia. So what does he do? He sends the Georgian army to occupy South Ossetia - big mistake. Russia retaliates and very quickly gains control of large chunks of the country. The quick response from Russia suggests they were more than expecting Georgia's move but that is pretty much speculation - point is, I don't think Russia is going to leave in a hurry: American threats of foreign relation breakdowns don't seem to carry as much weight as they used to.

[Libertarian Freemen]

Ok...

Free Tibet!

Free Taiwan!

End oppression in the balkans!

but force the South Osetians to stay part of Georgia even when the vast majority wants to be Russian and when the region was part of Russia until Stalin redrew the maps to suit himself.

yeah, that makes sense. Seriously, I don't see any 'white hats' in this conflict, but Russia is less in the wrong. Particularly since it looks like Georgia hit first in the hope that the NATO nations would back them.

Weird stuff: the Ghost Recon game eerily predicted some of this...

[TheSensitiveNewAge]

I thought there was something about Russia issuing passports to residents in the breakaway provinces without being asked in the first place.

Truth be told, this matter has me stumped.

[Alfonia]

This is yet another example of the Russian empire once again showing its true face; however I must agree with what has already been said and that is that Georgia acted really foolishly when they provoked russia, expecting NATO backing. I suppose they over-estimated their own importance; a realistic leader would have foreseen that all they would get was a bunch of angry supporting letters from the EU.

What's worse is that they've given Russia yet another chance to show off their proven capability to bash their little neighbours - the rigged elections in the Ukraine (with the poisoning of its rightful winner), the Russian-sponsored riots in Estonia, its threat to sever the gas Ukrainian gas supply... You all remember that big military parade russia hosted last year to celebrate victory in europe day? (it's on youtube and makes for some pretty nice entertainment for people like me who enjoy watching people march in squares) They were marching under red flags with the hammer and sickle, for christ's sake!

I can't come up with a solution to what I'd call the Russian problem, but angry letters and threats of military intervention both seem silly to me. Russia is big and ignorant. Some call me paranoid, but Estonia and Georgia aren't too much different from my own country; and with the new gas pipeline through the baltic, russian navy presence will be at an all time high since the end of the cold war... Some have argued that a prosperous Russia will indeed be good for the region, that the economic growth may spread over the borders and help bring up those countries that Russia's former shape brought down. This would of course only be possible in a climate of peace and tolerance, so achieving this could be vital. I can't see how that could be done without giving in too much to the Czar though.

As for S.O. I'd say there's a fair chance it will be independent in a year's time or two, probably run by a non-democratic pro-russian regime not unlike the one in Belarus. A merger with Russia would be possible in the future, but I still think Russia would want to stay clear from anything that could be defined as annexing Georgian territory - at least for the moment.

[Noyzistan]

The real parallel to South Ossetia is Kosovo and NOT Iraq. (hence it's more Clinton's fault than Bush's). By supporting the independence drive of Kosovo from Yugoslavia (because Kosovo was more western leaning than Yugoslavia), precedence has been set. Any other view taken by the United States (and the supporters of Kosovo) would be hypocritical.

Truth be told, The US (in Kosovo) and Russia (in South Ossetia) are both selfish b*st*rds who are mainly looking at self-interest and not the interest of the respective "break-away states".

[Olsenistan]

Honestly, Georgia had it coming. They're right next to Russia, and so right in their sphere of influence--just as the United States does everything they can to control Central and South America, so Russia does everything they can to control Eastern (and parts of Western) Europe. Putin specifically told Georgia to lay off S.O. and Abkhazia (sp?), but Georgia decided to use military force anyway.

TIP: If a larger nation, more powerful nation, led by a former head of the KGB tells you to do something, you DON'T do the complete opposite and expect an ALLY WHO IS BOGGED DOWN IN NOT ONE BUT TWO wars to come and help you out.

Russia was simply protecting their sphere of influence. S.O. and Akbhazia wanted to be Russian anyway--and in fact, North Ossetia is already IN Russia.

Also, in recent news, due to an utter lack of foreign investment, the Kremlin recently closed the Russian stock markets.

RUSSIA: 1
U.S.A: 1

[Noyzistan]

Sept 23, 2008 13:40:41 GMT -5 Olsenistan said:

RUSSIA: 1
U.S.A: 1

China: 2

[Anime Daisuki]

China has no territorial interests in South Ossetia (or Kosovo for that matter) so I don't know why you mention her. I hope this is not one of those "lets blame China" moment that I see all over the place these last few years.

[Alfonia]

Lolz everyone knows europe kicks all their azzes lolz

EU : 100

[Chronopolice]

I think that the South Ossetian conflict will hurt both sides. The question is when.

Georgia got hurt early and hard. Taking on the Russian bear is a very bad idea and they're lucky they got off pretty lightly.

Russia will feel the effects later once they start losing their grip on their regions. I feel that Russia shot their own foot in assisting the breakaway regions of South Ossetia and Abkazhia. Remember the separatist movements in Chechenya?

We are also lucky that the US got bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan or else, Third World War anyone?

[Alfonia]

I think it's unclear wether or not this will worsen the situation in Chechnya as it seemed to me things there were as f:ed up as they get, even before the turmoil in Georgia... I don't think there's so much to gain for various russian regions that might consider independence or joining another state, so I'm not sure if I agree with what you're predicting. Rather, I think Russia might end up growing as a result of this as other regions break away to rejoin the soviet union; Belarus is an example of a country that could be tempted to do so on a national scale, although this would not change much as the state is already clearly within the russian sphere of influence.

[Noyzistan]

Sept 23, 2008 15:33:12 GMT -5 Anime Daisuki said:

China has no territorial interests in South Ossetia (or Kosovo for that matter) so I don't know why you mention her. I hope this is not one of those "lets blame China" moment that I see all over the place these last few years.

haha! No, I wasn't blaming China for South Ossetia or Kosovo.

Just giving points.
USA: 1 (for "liberating" Kosovo)
Russia: 1 (for "liberating" South Ossetia)
China: 2 (for suppressing "rebels" in Tibet and Taiwan)

:grin:

[Olsenistan]

No it's Russia 1 for supressing SO, USA 1 since Russia had to close their stock markets. Stocks in China recently fell 500+ points post Lehman Bros., so U.S.A. comes out on top yet again. What's fabulous about our economy is that even when we're f-ed up majorly, we drag the rest of the world down with us and then get back up faster, so we end up on top.

[New Dracora]

Sept 23, 2008 14:38:41 GMT -5 Noyzistan said:

Sept 23, 2008 13:40:41 GMT -5 Olsenistan said:

RUSSIA: 1
U.S.A: 1

China: 2

Manchester United: 3

[Noyzistan]

Sept 27, 2008 0:43:20 GMT -5 New Dracora said:

Sept 23, 2008 14:38:41 GMT -5 Noyzistan said:

China: 2

Manchester United: 3

No way!!
Liverpool is the best!!