Zimbabwe?

[Iwerddon]

Brief summary: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe#Decline_.281999.E2.80.93present.29

What if anything should be done?

The UN response seems to be typical. Apply bandaids, don't solve any problems. More money! More bandaids!

Things like this sicken me that as a world we can't get our act together enough to fix stuff like this. Helps highlight just how useless the UN bureaucracy is.

[Jmarjhah]

The UN is so usless as to be almost a joke.
Members of the UN human rights council: Russia, China, Cuba, Pakistan, Algeria, Tunisia, Cameroon, countries with some of the most dismal human rights records in the world

[rogernomics]

Dec 11, 2008 5:09:50 GMT -5 Jmarjhah said:

The UN is so usless as to be almost a joke.
Members of the UN human rights council: Russia, China, Cuba, Pakistan, Algeria, Tunisia, Cameroon, countries with some of the most dismal human rights records in the world

An organisation is only as good as its members, the UN is by no means useless, its members are. If we abolished veto power and kicked out crack pot dictatorships we might get somewhere. Till then the UN is like the league of nations, people just sitting and making legislation, throwing money at things and ending up making little change or progress.

[rogernomics]

Dec 11, 2008 4:02:17 GMT -5 Iwerddon said:

Brief summary: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbabwe#Decline_.281999.E2.80.93present.29

What if anything should be done?

The UN response seems to be typical. Apply bandaids, don't solve any problems. More money! More bandaids!

Things like this sicken me that as a world we can't get our act together enough to fix stuff like this. Helps highlight just how useless the UN bureaucracy is.

Well I think this brings into light the whole situation in Africa, for years people have given aid, but that is just supporting people who are dead anyway.

The only way forward is to give not just aid but free trade to Africa, currently the rest of the world stops the average person in Africa trading with the rest of the world.

All trade is controlled by foreign corporations (aka from the US and so on) in Africa, and little if any money gets into the hands of workers who are paid less than workers in Chinese sweat shops.

[Chronopolice]

The problem with the United Nations is that it doesn't have real sovereign power. Maybe it is time to turn it into a world governing body.

One world under one flag. ;D

[Enigmatic]

Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse? ;D

[rogernomics]

Dec 11, 2008 17:50:55 GMT -5 Enigmatic said:

Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse? ;D

That's a prophecy.

Prophecy not equals truth.

Plus not all religions or even followers of christanity believe in the end of the world caused by world government.

Personally if you try to stop prophecy you will more likely cause it to happen...read the story of Oedipus, its the best example of how trying to avoid fate is foolish and only makes things worse.

It will only happen if we:

a) become worse people than we are now
b) become truly evil
c) crush individuality and freedom

I don't see any of these happening with world government, in fact individual governments have done these things aka Nazi Germany, and we didn't suffer the "end of the world", lol.

[Anime Daisuki]

Africa is a sinkhole for world efforts and money. Just take a look at the continent right now: If it's not cholera and food shortage in Zimbabwe, it's genocide in Sudan, or piracy in Somalia, or turmoil in Demo Rep of Congo. The second you plug a leak, another leak springs up. It's like chasing shadows or playing a game of whack the ground hog.

It's not a PC thing to say, but these people are just not ready to govern themselves. Nations like Malaysia, India, etc, attained independence from colonial powers around the same time the same countries in Africa. Why is there such a huge disparity in results?

Ultimately, it is cultural. It's in the minds of those people. You can pour huge amounts of money to develop infrastructure or educate them and it still will not work because they want to screw it up.

[Twobagger]

Dec 11, 2008 19:53:35 GMT -5 @rogernomics said:

Dec 11, 2008 17:50:55 GMT -5 Enigmatic said:

Isn't that one of the signs of the apocalypse? ;D

That's a prophecy.

Prophecy not equals truth.

Plus not all religions or even followers of christanity believe in the end of the world caused by world government.

Personally if you try to stop prophecy you will more likely cause it to happen...read the story of Oedipus, its the best example of how trying to avoid fate is foolish and only makes things worse.

"Come on guys, just because someone wrote something down in a book doesn't mean it'll happen. Let's look at something someone wrote down in a play instead, this is a good example of what will happen."
Anyhow, I'm partial to what AD said. These people just aren't ready to govern themselves. Can't really think of a way to solve it, though... maybe it's just one of those things that isn't going away, no matter what. You know, like fighting in the Middle East.

[Estayland]

Zimbabwe was a great country until this guy took over and took farms away from whitey.

[Anime Daisuki]

It's the culture. The concept of nationhood is not strong to Africans. Tribal loyalties (same problem in Afghanistan) trumps all else. Hence you have warring tribes all the time.

There is also a lack of a culture that instills or nurtures moral uprightness and personal integrity. By contrast: In China/Eastern cultures, stories are told to children about heroes who defend and die for their country. Some of the most famous Confucian heroes are those that lived frugally, or were just, or were filial. In Europe/Western cultures, the Christian religion had the same effect on morality. Likewise, the story of Knights and so forth live in the collective conciousness of many Westerners.

As far as I know Africans have no such culture. Their ministers, heads of states are frequently former tribal leaders who are accustomed to homage. They don't respect the rule of law because tribal leaders ARE the law.

Until these cultural issues are addressed its a waste of money trying to fix Africa.

[Petalumadom]

Dec 12, 2008 13:47:46 GMT -5 Estayland said:

Zimbabwe was a great country until this guy took over and took farms away from whitey.

Exactly... Zimbabwe just a few years ago was a massive exporter of grain to sub-Saharan Africa... Crazy dictator comes in... mass starvation...

Part of the problem is that most of the "tribes" treat themselves like Greek City-states. and when the European countries drew borders they chopped some of these city-states into bits...

aside from Egypt and South Africa things are an utter mess overall.

One country, South Africa produces 1/3rd of Africa's GDP and Egypt is probably a good chunk of the rest.

These people need some sort of unity... beyond the tribal scale...

[New Dracora]

Dec 12, 2008 13:47:46 GMT -5 Estayland said:

Zimbabwe was a great country until this guy took over and took farms away from whitey.

Uh... 'that guy' has been in power ever since Zimbabwe became an independant country (prior to that it was known as Rhodesia).

lern 2 wiki n00b - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhodesia


As to those saying african's can't rule due to their culture - go screw yourselves. I mean seriously, bend over, twist painfully and get to work. Africa is still recovering from almost a century of being raped up the ass for over a century by the "highly moral" european powers. It's a continent of nations that had to fight for independance for the most part and that mentally does not just disappear over night.

And for the record - the ruling ZANU party in Zimbabwe came to power thanks to the support from China.

[velias]

New Dracora, i hope you know that the higly moral european powers weren't alone... US aren't saints