Statement Regarding the UDL

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

I was very disappointed in the latest public acknowledgement by the UDL that they actively allow invaders to take part in their "defending" organization. No competent defending group would ever purposely allow invaders into their midst. To allow invaders into the UDL shows a lack of leadership, common sense & in my mind the UDL has ceased to be a legitimate defender group.

Besides just the common sense issues of allowing invaders into a defending group, where is the moral compass of the UDL? Here in TITO, we defend because we want to help others. We also help because we were once a tiny region who was attacked without reason. Invaders are bullies and we'll take them on and beat them wherever they go.

Unitbot is the head of the UDL and his actions have shown that he is no longer competent to lead a defender organization. I have read some of his justification for allowing "good" invaders into his group. All I have to say about something like that is that you can't be a little bit pregnant.

For years we have had issues with the incompetence in the UDL and have tried to keep it between our two groups, but the actions of Unibot should be a sign to all that it is time to move on and look elsewhere. Whatever you tell the UDL, invaders will know. This also shows that the UDL & Unibot do not truly think there is anything wrong with the online bullying that invaders bring to this game.

I hope that the true defenders in the UDL will break off from the hollow entity that is the UDL and start a true defending group that will actually have some standards and a moral compass.

In closing, I no longer consider the UDL a defending group and urge all nations and regions to distance themselves from a group that is knowingly riddled with invaders. Boot Unibot and try to clean up the utter mess he has made.

Grub
Founder - 10000 Islands/TITO

[Cerb]

Well stated Grub.

This certainly hasn't been a hasty assessment and I agree with it entirely. You can't really accept invaders into a defender group and expect it to remain consistent in it's values and operations.

[Wordy]

I completely agree with Grubs statement and it has my full support. This was not a snap decision and behind the scenes TITO have indeed tried to accommodate the different strategies and what I consider poor decision making by the leadership of UDL.
The choice to allow members into UDL that actively invade gives them access to any UDL information and tools. It provides them with a support system and breeds an environment that legitimises invading.
- Wordy

[Aersoldorf]

well said

very disappointing

[MinnaCaroline]

I completely agree it is extremely disappointing no legitimate defender org can knowingly allow invaders in to their midst and believe that it is okay. It is never okay.

[Markanite]

Well said Grub, Very disappointing to see this.

[Glasgia]

Well said, it's just plain common sense and shows that they are in it purely for themselves. This puts UDL below the moral lower ground and, if you forgive me for this, into the moral mine shaft. I'm no experienced defender, but I do what I can to help small region in the name of TITO. Yes, I'd like to have a name for myself and to be known as NS's best defender, but I still know what's right and what's wrong. This statement has been coming for a while now and they finally pulled the last straw. It's good to know TITO has distanced themselves from such a vile organisation.

[Mal]

My motto is: Inside every problem is an opportunity. I know it's a flagrant violation of game rules to recruit those in non-feeder regions, but I'm wondering:

1. Do we know who in UDL are legitimate defenders, on par with the quality of TITO?

2. Is there a way within the rules to "reach out" to those nations and let them know that competent, bona-fide defender organizations like us can use their help?

[Wordy]

There are many legitimate and sincere defenders in UDL. I am afraid any approach by TITO or by 10Kers would indeed be a violation of game rules.
At this point it would also be seen as an aggressive move rather than reaching out.
We are not UDLs enemy however we can not maintain a working relationship with them under the current leadership. That will not change so we have made our position clear.

[Mal]

Aug 5, 2012 16:04:17 GMT -5 Wordy said:

There are many legitimate and sincere defenders in UDL. I am afraid any approach by TITO or by 10Kers would indeed be a violation of game rules.
At this point it would also be seen as an aggressive move rather than reaching out.
We are not UDLs enemy however we can not maintain a working relationship with them under the current leadership. That will not change so we have made our position clear.

OK. It was just a thought. I didn't think it had a realistic chance.

[Ilstoria]

Aug 2, 2012 17:36:32 GMT -5 Cerb said:

Well stated Grub.

This certainly hasn't been a hasty assessment and I agree with it entirely. You can't really accept invaders into a defender group and expect it to remain consistent in it's values and operations.

Sounds like they take an ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS approach, if you ask me.

[Cerb]

Aug 7, 2012 16:04:27 GMT -5 Ilstoria said:

Aug 2, 2012 17:36:32 GMT -5 Cerb said:

Well stated Grub.

This certainly hasn't been a hasty assessment and I agree with it entirely. You can't really accept invaders into a defender group and expect it to remain consistent in it's values and operations.

Sounds like they take an ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS approach, if you ask me.

It makes about as much sense as the allies asking Italy to help liberate Poland in WWII.

[Cerb]

Such suggestions would be best directed to the TOs directly.

[Eist]

Thank you, Cerb. Please remember that this board is open and can therefore can be read by anybody. Suggestions for TITO procedure are welcome, but should be directed in private to a TO. That said, we will not be doing anything to coax UDL members here. If DL members are dissatisfied with their organisation's raider tendencies and want to apply for TITO, then they know what to do.

Let this be clear to anyone outside TITO reading this: while we do not accept dual membership, despite the common belief, we have admitted defenders and even raiders from other organisations before.

[Wordy]

Just a note to add on recruiting for an organisation.
Regardless of the reason recruiting players from anywhere other than a Game created region is illegal for both an organisation and a region.
Being an organisation does not make a difference to the recruiting rules. It also remains illegal should the recruiting be done through channels other than TG as it effects the game.

[Glasgia]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up. It was just an idea to see if you guys interpreted the rules the same way as I did. It seems you don't and, as you have more experience, then I'll let you tell me what's right and wrong. I'll try to remember to make such suggestions direct to a TO next time.

[Wordy]

It is fine Glasgia
The recruiting rules might seem a little foggy. I have clarified with mods to ensure we are up to date.
As it stands an organisation may not recruit via any means players from anywhere other than game created regions.

[Wordy]

As this thread has once again been linked on NS Forum I will reiterate unwavering support of Grubs post.
I also take this opportunity to remind everyone that posts on NS Forum to remain respectful and courteous and follow NS rules of behaviour.

Posts such as calling the nation Cromarty things like Nonynony poopoo head, Jerkwad, Mr. Uppants, Clueless mcmarty smartypants are entirely inappropriate.

Thank you for your time.

- Wordy

[Mahaj Representative]

Does the fact that the UDL reversed its policy on allowing invaders as members change anything?

[Wordy]

At this point Mahaj I would hesitate to recommend that to Grub. You could certainly approach him though.
My reasoning being that the policy could change back with little to no notice and the fact that the organisation may well change over the next month or so due to Unibot having lost WA status.
A change of leadership might happen ( I am speculating).
I certainly would not rule it out but it would take time to mend fences in what has become a very public mud slinging by Unibot against TITO.

[Batman country]

The only thing I see as a fault is the invaders/enemy having access to an ally's resources so soon. In war, if the enemy turns to your side, and proves to be loyal then you can at least allow them to operate as an ally to a limited degree.

It also serves as a double edged sword, while allowing invaders access to their information, invaders likely are goated into GIVING information about the enemy, which at the time is very much worth it. You can change you own plans on a whim if need be. But unless the enemy knows about the leak, they're in the dark and that leads to opportunity to exploit and weaken the enemy.

[Broncrano]

Well stated Grub, truly correctly putted, it is appalling, its truly shocking that they can throwaway morals right out the door like that