Should college/ university athletes be paid?

[Mal]

Under the current rules of the National Collegiate Athletic Association here in the U.S., Colleges and Universities are prohibited from paying athletes.

Athletes must also meet minimum grade standards, etc... but we'll table those questions for now and focus on the pay issue.

Please answer the follwoing explanation and explain your logic:

Should colleges and universities be permitted to pay their players for participation in athletic programs?

[Eist]

I know this is long but please read it before responding.

I am strongly in support of paying football athletes for their work. The crux of the problems with reform lies with the corrupt organisation that is the NCAA, and practices that have been in place for over a century that clouds people’s vision.

First of all, athletes are the engines that drive the machine. They are what make the system run. And this system is big business. Football and basketball combined bring in revenue over $6 billion annually(1). College coach’s salaries are comparable to professional teams: Mark Brown’s (University of Texas) salary was $5.1 million in 2011, while the total value of the scholarships for the year at UT was $3.1 million (1). The big university’s football teams make profits between $40 million and $80 million every year (4). The NCAA’s revenue during the last three-week March Madness Tournament was $770 million (1).

The athletes see the big business behind them. They are not stupid. They see the jerseys at $50 a pop in their university’s shop, they see the books, DVDs, films and games with their names on them and they are not entitled a dime. It all goes back to the NCAA. This makes the system very prone to misconduct. For example, the University of Miami system was recently gutted because the coaches were running an effective Ponzi scheme to pay their athletes. Universities feed off the high-profit college football component, and are therefore nearly totally at their whims. For example, the University of Michigan stadium expansion cost $226 million. This is sadly probably a good move, but we are seeing universities more becoming about big sport than actual academia.

The “student-athlete” concept usually espoused by the NCAA to keep athletes amateur and voices. This is a complete misnomer. The players are neither students that play football sometimes, nor are they professional football players that sometimes attend classes. They are high-performance athletes that are required to attend classes full-time. This leads to different and lower requirements for degrees than their peers, and given their athletic demands, they frequently fall behind even on these. Jan Kemp was an English professor at the University of Georgia in the mid-80s who exposed the systematic inflation of grades for football players so they could meet the minimum requirements. She was fired for this. The football coaches seriously argued that this practice was necessary so athletes could compete on a level playing field. They lost in a lawsuit directed only towards them, and, given the increased training demands on the players, this practice is arguably more prevalent than it was back then.

College athlete scholarships are yearly, and reassessed at the same time every year. Underperforming and even injured players can have their scholarships cut at any time. Admittedly, the NCCA is making grounds on repealing this. Furthermore, frequently scholarships fall short of the cost of tuition, and athletes are required to make up the rest (1). College football athletes are not paid. The argument that they are paid with a free education falls flat because they are not utilising this. This is evasive and, to me, is akin to slavery being justified because the slaves were offered eternal salvation in Heaven. It falls flat.

So, what can easily be done to remedy the situation? I believe that athletes have to be paid. There should be a minimum pay for athletes at every university around the national minimum wage mark. There should be a salary cap at universities so that big colleges do not dominate the smaller schools. Nearly every school can afford this, and those that cannot probably shouldn’t have a football programme. The NCAA needs to offer the athletes a voice by granting a seat in the boardroom just like we see with every other academic programme, and, more widely within any profession with wage earning workers.

In short, the NCAA is a corrupt and a fraud. The system is completely broken, and at the heart of this is that these players do not have a voice in how the system is run, and are not getting paid. There are ways to remedy the situation though, but until the general population realises the massive problems, the abuse of athletes will not change.

Thank you.


1. www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/lets-start-paying-college-athletes.html?pagewanted=all
2. blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2011/08/nevin_shapiro_may_have_just_ki.php
3. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Stadium#2010_renovation_and_beyond
4. www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/10/the-shame-of-college-sports/8643/
5. sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=3761411&sportCat=ncf

[Aquavina]

I am torn on this issue on one hand the NCAA is making tons of money selling jerseys, televising there games among other avenues I'm sure. So yes I believe athlethes deserve their fair share. However the top NCAA athlethes are attending top notch schools for free, this cost most other people at least 6 figures to get the same degree many of these top athlethes get. So on one hand pay the players however without the full ride the money would go from their pockets stright to the schools.

[Benevolent Thomas]

I'm with Eist on this one. These athletes should at least be paid when their likeness is used on merchandise.

[Siple]

They should not be paid as a standard practice, but rather, only if there is merchandise in their name.

[Eist]

Aug 27, 2012 17:07:48 GMT -5 Siple said:

They should not be paid as a standard practice, but rather, only if there is merchandise in their name.

Why should they be unpaid for standard practice? They are sure bringing in a boat-load of money, making certain individuals and companies extremely rich.

[Siple]

But they are student athletes competing for their school, not contracted professionals.

[Greek People Nation (GPN)]

I can see what you are saying. But, if they get paid for the work they are doing, then they are professionals. That there ends college sports. With merchandise, the names of the players are not put on the jerseys. Even look at the games, not there either. They are getting a free education, that is just a fact. Their education is paid for in return for playing the sport that is offered to them. It is more harmful than helpful to pay them.

[Eist]

Aug 28, 2012 0:42:17 GMT -5 Siple said:

But they are student athletes competing for their school, not contracted professionals.

I argued above why the "student-athlete" label was crap.

Aug 11, 2012 13:43:53 GMT -5 Eist said:

The “student-athlete” concept usually espoused by the NCAA to keep athletes amateur and voices. This is a complete misnomer. The players are neither students that play football sometimes, nor are they professional football players that sometimes attend classes. They are high-performance athletes that are required to attend classes full-time. This leads to different and lower requirements for degrees than their peers, and given their athletic demands, they frequently fall behind even on these. Jan Kemp was an English professor at the University of Georgia in the mid-80s who exposed the systematic inflation of grades for football players so they could meet the minimum requirements. She was fired for this. The football coaches seriously argued that this practice was necessary so athletes could compete on a level playing field. They lost in a lawsuit directed only towards them, and, given the increased training demands on the players, this practice is arguably more prevalent than it was back then.

College athlete scholarships are yearly, and reassessed at the same time every year. Underperforming and even injured players can have their scholarships cut at any time. Admittedly, the NCCA is making grounds on repealing this. Furthermore, frequently scholarships fall short of the cost of tuition, and athletes are required to make up the rest (1). College football athletes are not paid. The argument that they are paid with a free education falls flat because they are not utilising this. This is evasive and, to me, is akin to slavery being justified because the slaves were offered eternal salvation in Heaven. It falls flat.

Do you disagree with what I wrote?

[Takaram]

As a current college student, I'd have to say that they should. "Student-athletes" are, quite frankly, already rewarded for their efforts, so why not just pay them?

[Ad Infinitum]

I was never paid for any of my extracurricular activities in college, despite pushing my body and mind to the absolute limit (something few college athletes ever experience). Much like a college athlete, too, my extracurriculars landed me a secure job that evolved into an honest career after college.

They got nothing to ask for, they already get a free ride and fame and get jobs in the NFL or what-have-you after college. I don't even think they deserve scholarships, to be honest. If you really want to do something, you'll do it for free.

[Eist]

Sept 7, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 Ad Infinitum said:

I was never paid for any of my extracurricular activities in college, despite pushing my body and mind to the absolute limit

I’d be interested to know what these were.

Sept 7, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 Ad Infinitum said:

(something few college athletes ever experience).

Mind, certainly, but these are undoubtedly elite athletes. They are often pushing their bodies past breaking-point. I don’t know how you can justify this comment.

Sept 7, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 Ad Infinitum said:

Much like a college athlete, too, my extracurriculars landed me a secure job that evolved into an honest career after college.

Very few college players make it in their sport professionally, whereas your chosen profession must be near 100%

Sept 7, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 Ad Infinitum said:

If you really want to do something, you'll do it for free.

Well, yea, and they do.

My counterargument is two-fold. The NCAA is making bank off these players without any real compensation for their efforts. Even the scholarships mostly don’t come from the NCAA. Why should they be using the players to make a fortune, and the people generating the income get none? I can’t think of any other situation where this occurs.

Almost every “student-athlete” is more the athlete than the student. They don’t do well in class (mostly because they spend the vast majority of their time with their sport rather than the books), and even the half that get a degree are not well educated (see my reference above). They get a free-ride in classes because they are so valuable to the school, but at the end they have a piece of paper that is not worth very much. Then they are on their own. They are used.

So, the scholarships are not that valuable. What if the sports were not linked to a university, such as soccer in England, and these players, generating mega-millions for the organisers and sponsors, were still not paid. Surely you agree this would not make sense. The fact that the NCAA is oddly tied to universities is a red-herring; it doesn’t really matter.

[Ad Infinitum]

Sept 9, 2012 10:03:42 GMT -5 Eist said:

Sept 7, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 Ad Infinitum said:

I was never paid for any of my extracurricular activities in college, despite pushing my body and mind to the absolute limit

I’d be interested to know what these were.



Mind, certainly, but these are undoubtedly elite athletes. They are often pushing their bodies past breaking-point. I don’t know how you can justify this comment.

While these jocks were out drinking and sleeping with anything that had legs, I was poring over ballistics tables doing math to figure out which bullet weight would be more effective at 1000 yards or 950 yards based on energy to velocity ratios at point of impact. While they were running back and forth across even terrain, I was running up a mountain with a 90 lb pack strapped to my chest. When coach told them to take a knee before a pep talk, I was doing pushups in the mud while the Black Hats told me how worthless my mother thought I was.

Yeah, I don't think athletes are elite at all. They can do brainless work using brute force, learned through repetition. I have no respect for them.

Sept 9, 2012 10:03:42 GMT -5 Eist said:

Very few college players make it in their sport professionally, whereas your chosen profession must be near 100%

Wash-out rates for ROTC are through the roof. Couple that with dropout rates for AMWS, jump school, Ranger school, sniper school, among others... yeah, if you survive training for my sport, you get a job. Assuming you survive the job, you get a career.

Sept 9, 2012 10:03:42 GMT -5 Eist said:

Sept 7, 2012 16:05:32 GMT -5 Ad Infinitum said:

If you really want to do something, you'll do it for free.

Well, yea, and they do.

They don't... they get a scholarship, which most of them waste by being idiots or drinking too much.

Sept 9, 2012 10:03:42 GMT -5 Eist said:

Almost every “student-athlete” is more the athlete than the student. They don’t do well in class (mostly because they spend the vast majority of their time with their sport rather than the books), and even the half that get a degree are not well educated (see my reference above). They get a free-ride in classes because they are so valuable to the school, but at the end they have a piece of paper that is not worth very much. Then they are on their own. They are used.

So, the scholarships are not that valuable. What if the sports were not linked to a university, such as soccer in England, and these players, generating mega-millions for the organisers and sponsors, were still not paid. Surely you agree this would not make sense. The fact that the NCAA is oddly tied to universities is a red-herring; it doesn’t really matter.

So you're saying they're are a waste of scholarship money for an education that would be embraced and used to its fullest potential elsewhere? I couldn't agree more.

[Eist]

I can't discuss this with you if you don't think they put in any effort to get to a position that they are most certainly going to fail. The whole crux of my argument relies on this. I find it hard to believe, though, that something so lucrative and "sexy" could be filled with worthless do-nothinger slobs. It makes me think that I should have put in more effort at the gym and drunk less alcohol -- getting into pro football sounds like a breeze!

For the record, I don't like American football. I wish the money used on it could be put to academic pursuits (like I said in my initial post).

But that's not going to happen.

[Ad Infinitum]

Oh, I know they put effort into it. I just think the effort is misdirected and should have been put into something that actually contributes to society.

I really don't hold athletes, professional or pseudo-academic, in a very high regard. All they do is generate money, which is put back into athletics, which is then used to generate more money. Sports is Nascar.

[Eist]

I think that's a pretty narrow viewpoint. People, for better or worse, are interested in this form of entertainment, and as a functioning society, that's all right. This is getting well off the debate at hand, though.

[New Ecopia]

ikr

[Grimlundt]

The opportunistic for physical prowess ought to be commensurate to the opportunities for intellectual and artistic prowess and geared to population studies. Sport is an important part of culture and culture is one of the 4 pillars of sustainable development ... no culture, no spiritual power ... and that leads to a depressed docile demos (very bad)

Yes, we need to fight corruption wherever we find it
That's part of how we will build the Open Society

[Grimlundt]

You have a gun --- I have a gun. That's the way it ought to be --- Sean Penn
Please read this metaphorically
What I mean is "let us engage in fair and honest debate"
With compression in our hearts and open minds

Sports RULE

[Grimlundt]

LOL compression

I meant "compassion"

I have enuf compression already

[Indon Isle]

It's the collage's money, they should be able to give it to whoever they want.

[Eist]

Oct 8, 2012 20:36:57 GMT -5 Indon Isle said:

It's the collage's money, they should be able to give it to whoever they want.

This doesn't answer whether the athletes should they be paid or not. Also, you seem to be missing the part about the overbearing power and wealth the NCAA (which essentially only organises games) has over the whole system.

That said, it's a fair point. The system is what it is. People are willing to go to games, athletes are willing to make a few businessmen exorbitantly rich while working for free, and colleges are willing to facilitate because they can take a cut. I just think the system should be better, because most of the athletes, chasing this dream, get screwed over. I think the power should be in the hands of the athletes, not the businessmen.

[Indon Isle]

[

Oct 8, 2012 20:47:55 GMT -5 Eist said:

This doesn't answer whether the athletes should they be paid or not.

Should they be paid? I dunno. I don't play sports and it ain't my money. Having established that: I can't come up with a good reason why they shouldn't be.

Oct 8, 2012 20:47:55 GMT -5 Eist said:

Also, you seem to be missing the part about the overbearing power and wealth the NCAA (which essentially only organises games) has over the whole system.

Psh. Forget them. College sports direct should be able to get together directly with the internet the way it is. Dump the middle man and keep the cash.

[Agidanya]

I come from a different mindset, as in Canada college sports don't hit the same level of popularity or revenue.

That said, I would agree that the athletes should see some benefit from all the revenue the schools and the NCAA (or other sports organisations outside the USA) make using their names. This comes with the caveat, though that these athletes should not be given any special treatment either as scholarships or as leniency in classes. Those who put all the work into actually earning their grades are done a disservice by this.

On another tangent, one could consider the argument to pay student athletes by comparing it to a form of employment. I worked for my school's Students' Union for two years while in university, and I got paid for it - because the SU received a benefit from my labour. Are athletes really any different? (But I did not get special consideration in classes for this, despite working 25 hours + during the school week. Neither should they. )