Amanda Todd Suicide

[Shemiki]

www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/10/20121011-194353.html

This is a rather disturbing article I found. Thoughts?

[Republic of Embara]

that's just....wow....I wish I could give her a hug but it's too late and I'd never met her :/

honestly, there are a lot of people in that article that I hope go to hell.

[Shemiki]

I think this is one of many reasons Canada should have harsher sentences and bring back the death penalty (it took place in British Columbia). For universal suggestions, I believe teachers should have much stronger powers to deal with bullying. They are so inept these days.

[Firstaria]

Only three posts to say something stupid about this? Not bad, not bad at all.

Let's say straight on that I'm a cynical guy when I speak of serious things, so sorry if someone get offended sorry.

Now, to the point...of how much this makes me want to hit a wall with my head. Now that this girl died, we all know what is gonna happen: 2000+ talk shows about bulling for the next 2 months. This IS the only thing that is going to change. Period.

Truth is that people don't care about bully, or they care but as soon as they raise a finger against it they becoming the bad guys for having yelled a child, and the "poor" mothers of the bully are never gonna get the shit right and are gonna defend their child.

Want another sad story? Here's one: a child was 2 days ago literary dragged away from the house of the mother, who were screaming with neighbors to stop them. Video shock on internet.

SPOILER: Click to show

True fact: Said mother lost the parenthood by a tribunal sentence because she was brainwashing her child to become COMPLETELY dependent on her, and the guys pulling the kid out were policeman after the lady refused to accept the sentence and literally hold hostage her son.

You read it now? You know how many people jumped without problem to defend the mother? SAME SHIT, DIFFERENT OCCASION.
You want to stop bullying? Be serious on your sentences: hitting someone is actually a crime, put people in jail; and serious jail, not those fancy shits modern world have; a bed and a place to piss is more than enough. Yes, I said to put childrens in jail, but you realize how much is bad being bullied?

I was bullied in my young age, and I sadly realized that teachers could not do more than say " stop it ". So one day I almost broke someone spinal column with a chair; I was young and THAT WAS STUPID, but hell if the deal finished when the guy had to pass 10 days into an hospital.

You want to stop bullysm? Start to make it a serious crime, something that ruins the bully life more than he can ruin the life of someone. If there is no gain, no one will do that!


And also, DEATH SENTENCE IS THE STUPIDEST INVENTION OF MANKIND EVER. When someone realizes he's gonna get it, 90% of the times he panickes and does worse crimes, since he knows he's not gonna get out of that situation. Death is no deterrent or punishment, is freedom for criminals.

Done.

[Republic of Embara]

honestly...I don't think that anyone should have died in this...she could have been saved if one of those little bastards had a shred of human decency.

[Shemiki]

Oct 14, 2012 10:39:27 GMT -5 Firstaria said:

Only three posts to say something stupid about this? Not bad, not bad at all.

Let's say straight on that I'm a cynical guy when I speak of serious things, so sorry if someone get offended sorry.

Now, to the point...of how much this makes me want to hit a wall with my head. Now that this girl died, we all know what is gonna happen: 2000+ talk shows about bulling for the next 2 months. This IS the only thing that is going to change. Period.

Truth is that people don't care about bully, or they care but as soon as they raise a finger against it they becoming the bad guys for having yelled a child, and the "poor" mothers of the bully are never gonna get the shit right and are gonna defend their child.

Want another sad story? Here's one: a child was 2 days ago literary dragged away from the house of the mother, who were screaming with neighbors to stop them. Video shock on internet.

SPOILER: Click to show

True fact: Said mother lost the parenthood by a tribunal sentence because she was brainwashing her child to become COMPLETELY dependent on her, and the guys pulling the kid out were policeman after the lady refused to accept the sentence and literally hold hostage her son.

You read it now? You know how many people jumped without problem to defend the mother? SAME SHIT, DIFFERENT OCCASION.
You want to stop bullying? Be serious on your sentences: hitting someone is actually a crime, put people in jail; and serious jail, not those fancy shits modern world have; a bed and a place to piss is more than enough. Yes, I said to put childrens in jail, but you realize how much is bad being bullied?

I was bullied in my young age, and I sadly realized that teachers could not do more than say " stop it ". So one day I almost broke someone spinal column with a chair; I was young and THAT WAS STUPID, but hell if the deal finished when the guy had to pass 10 days into an hospital.

You want to stop bullysm? Start to make it a serious crime, something that ruins the bully life more than he can ruin the life of someone. If there is no gain, no one will do that!


And also, DEATH SENTENCE IS THE STUPIDEST INVENTION OF MANKIND EVER. When someone realizes he's gonna get it, 90% of the times he panickes and does worse crimes, since he knows he's not gonna get out of that situation. Death is no deterrent or punishment, is freedom for criminals.

Done.

Almost my opinion. These days, if a kid is being bullied, new laws and regulations don't let teachers do much except tell them not to do it again...Hey! That sounds like the authorities in our justice system! Anyways, no one ever stops when they're told to stop, so the bullying keeps going on.

Now lets say the bullied party gets fed up and beats the living sh*t out of the bully. The bully goes whining to the teacher, who asks the bullied why he beat up the bully, and he/she tells him/her. So the bully whines about how he's injured or denies the charges or whatever, and in all interests in "being fair," the teacher calls their parents/guardians and puts them both in hot water.

Eventually, nothing is being done to stop this bullying. I agree with you Firstaria, bullying should be very serious as a crime, especially after this happens, and their should be harsh penalties for those responsible. 25 years of cruel and unusual punishment doesn't seem unreasonable.

However, I disagree with you on the death penalty. Wouldn't they be in custody after they were sentenced until they die?

[Firstaria]

Shemiki, I study law. And I know a sentence is a penalty given by law to obtain one of these following result:

- Enforcing the happening of a certain event.
- Prevent the happening of an event.
- Restoring a damaged event to his state wanted by the law.

Some says Death Penalty enters into the second one, but that is absurd bs. If this concept is true, then all the people should be sentenced to prevent the major crimes.
Prevention comes only when you believe the person could commit the law infraction, and a murderer can get out to murder again only if you get him free. Death Penality is part of a system who doesn't believe he can prevent crimes, so it tries to eliminate the burden whatsoever.

It's like if you have to lit a fire in camping, and because you don't believe you can succeed you leave camping with your friend so you don't get cold. Countries that put in the death penalty on their law are simply countries that DOES NOT BELIEVE THEY CAN PREVENT CRIMES.



Then there are the moral and the philosophical talking, but those are based on opinion, mine is based on how Democratic Penal Law was written and was suppose to work from the very beginning.

[Mobrocratica]

Well I am pretty new to the whole foruming thing in general but also to this particular forum. In fact this is the first thing i will post on the 10000 islands. There has been alot of hype regarding this whole Amanda Todd suicide business and I have looked into it, honestly, more than I think any dead person deserves to be looked at. I consider myself an observer, generally passive and interested in what makes people tick. What their intentions are past the words that are so often dribbling out of their mouths. After much investigation I realized several things.

She started being bullied at school, which she left, the bullying followed her on facebook. This is because she made herself a target. Constantly searching for people to tell her she was beautiful and tell her she was amazing. As she admitted in her own video she posted herself.

This is when the bullying became much more intense and MOST of this was on facebook. There is one very easy solution to being bullied on facebook. Stop using facebook. Period. The fact that she not only did not cease her facebook life or at least change her name suggests that she was craving that form of attention. Even when she changed schools she sustained her facebook life and most of her responses were to the people bullying her. Most of her posts were about the same topic...most of her videos etc etc. This consistent response to peoples attacks suggests she NEEDED to defend herself...she WANTED to defend herself otherwise she would have left that world long ago.

So in this whole debate of the bullying world and what needs to be done etc. This mostly, unfortunately, falls on the shoulders of the victim in being responsible enough to REMOVE herself from the attacks...which she purposefully did NOT do. In the end the attacks she suffered from follow a pattern of SELF abuse much more than from an outside source. Its sad. But we need to stop focusing on bullying, and start focusing on the person who craves it.

The cutting, the suicide attempts, the random revealing videos, the sexual chats online etc are all patterns that follow self abuse. Now I am not saying that bullying did not perhaps begin such a cycle, such a craving for pain. In the end she needed mental help in order to make her understand what she actually wanted and where she could go to get it. The bullying was only a tool.


Captain Chaos

[Firstaria]

You know, he's actually right. I mean, I do not wish to arrive at a point that bullied people will follow my example and start hitting spinal cords, but videos on Youtube? Facebook profiles easy to find?

But we also have to consider this wish for attention may be psychologically caused by the bulling itself, with people don't helping her at all she felt ignored and in need for attention.

This is actually an interesting view on the matter.

[Cerb]

Okay, my thoughts.

First off, there is an element of accountability for your own actions. If you sexually expose yourself on the internet, it is reasonable to expect you are not going to gain respect from your actions.

Children are cruel and they will inevitably pick on people who make mistakes. The problem is that now we have soft soaped the situation to such an extent that nobody can discipline a child outside of asking them to politely stop what they are doing or, shock horror, give them a detention.

Rough justice used to be a big part of growing up, and now it's completely pacifist and kids know there is damn all that teachers or anyone else can do about it.

I am sorry the girl suffered through the bullying, but surely the parents should have been taking steps, perhaps homeschooling her. Cutting her internet access so she couldn't remain a victim online.

Bullying is very wrong, but I think it's a problem that will never go away. Verbal abuse if done right is not criminal in most countries which makes it almost impossible to prosecute. Do we lose our freedom of speech for something like this?

I don't know and I can not solve it.

This story instantly reminded me of a couple of situations from my youth where two girls (seperate incidents) performed public sexual acts and suffered horrible harrassment from that time on until they left school and went on with their lives.

Here's the thing though, before they were so foolish they were completely under the radar. Their actions threw them into the limelight and as a result became targets.

My final thoughts?
Parents, if you find out your kid is bullying, make their bloody lives a misery so they learn that the biggest bully in their world is their parents.
Teachers? Call the police.
Kids? Remember you might be the next victim.
And finally, realize that exposing yourself is going to draw massive unwanted attention, possibly bullying but more likely from sexual predators.

Oh and one more for parents:
If you let your kids have free reign with cell phones and internet access, you will rue the day you ever let them get ahold of such technology. Monitor it, supervise it, and infringe on their privacy. It's the only way to keep them safe.

[Mobrocratica]

I think each case of bullying is unique and in the case of physical bullying there are legal steps parents can take to remedy the problem including but not limited to restraining orders. HOWEVER in the case of verbal abuse the responsibility lies fully on the parents. I think what cerb said is most accurate, this is a problem with the parenting. If we look at how she believed the easiest way to get attention was we will find that it stems from negative reinforcement. I.E. it seems to me her parents started the verbal abuse chain, taught her that the best way to get attention was negatively. I think this becomes even more obvious considering they took very little steps in trying to recuperate her. This girl needed mental help and all the did was send her to other schools. That sounds alot like copping out and trying to get her out of your hair to me. Which is painfully disgusting to think about. This blame needs to be put on her parents. They should be charged with neglect, abuse and potentially murder. I mean she tried and failed to kill herself once and that didn't strike them to make an effort to HELP HER?! to make her change her name or get her off facebook or even ONTO facebook with a different account?

THIS is what needs to change. We need to have people take responsibility for the mental stability of their children and if they prove to be incapable of that we should (being angry and excessive here my apologies) sterilize the living S*^& OUT OF THEM! People should not be allowed to have children if they are going to permit them to run this kind of life and be victim to this caliber of hatred of themselves.

This is of course speculation and oppinion and I Apologize for any insults i may have caused.

[Mobrocratica]

Cerb was right on with what he said....parents are responsible.

(sorry for not signing the last one)
Captain Chaos

[Ad Infinitum]

Did anyone commit suicide because they were picked on back in the '40s? To my knowledge, people just learned to stand up and fight back. Is this sort of thing just more public now, or are people just that much more soft? Or are we just so damn bored that this is actually news-worthy?

Then again, at least in the '40s if you wanted to send topless pictures to strangers you had to use a bulletin board in the diner, and if you wanted to have sex with said strangers you could get away with it anonymously. Those were better times.

I have no sympathy. I'm gonna go watch Felix jump out of space again. Because that is actually something that matters.

[Shemiki]

Oct 15, 2012 8:58:54 GMT -5 Firstaria said:

Shemiki, I study law. And I know a sentence is a penalty given by law to obtain one of these following result:

- Enforcing the happening of a certain event.
- Prevent the happening of an event.
- Restoring a damaged event to his state wanted by the law.

Some says Death Penalty enters into the second one, but that is absurd bs. If this concept is true, then all the people should be sentenced to prevent the major crimes.
Prevention comes only when you believe the person could commit the law infraction, and a murderer can get out to murder again only if you get him free. Death Penality is part of a system who doesn't believe he can prevent crimes, so it tries to eliminate the burden whatsoever.

It's like if you have to lit a fire in camping, and because you don't believe you can succeed you leave camping with your friend so you don't get cold. Countries that put in the death penalty on their law are simply countries that DOES NOT BELIEVE THEY CAN PREVENT CRIMES.



Then there are the moral and the philosophical talking, but those are based on opinion, mine is based on how Democratic Penal Law was written and was suppose to work from the very beginning.

Interesting, but I still disagree. When you say countries with the death penalty believe they cannot prevent crimes, one could argue that the death penalty is simply another way to prevent crime, like jail time or house arrest.

It would almost be a risk-free way to make sure it doesn't happen again: if the criminal is dead, there is 0% chance he will do it again. That would fully serve the second result no problem.

As for simply putting every person to death to fulfill result #2, I'd cite the different sentences for each crime. If someone stole a video player or something, he'd get three months in jail, but a person who raped and murdered two people would get a life sentence with no chance of parole. The death penalty would work similar, only going to those deemed worthy of it through crimes deemed more serious than others.

Anyway, I don't study law like you do, I do not even think I'm from the same country and justice system as you, but that's my opinion.

[Cerb]

Oct 15, 2012 16:44:35 GMT -5 Ad Infinitum said:

Did anyone commit suicide because they were picked on back in the '40s? To my knowledge, people just learned to stand up and fight back. Is this sort of thing just more public now, or are people just that much more soft? Or are we just so d**n bored that this is actually news-worthy?

Then again, at least in the '40s if you wanted to send topless pictures to strangers you had to use a bulletin board in the diner, and if you wanted to have sex with said strangers you could get away with it anonymously. Those were better times.

I have no sympathy. I'm gonna go watch Felix jump out of space again. Because that is actually something that matters.

Yeah, people did top themselves because of things like this. The world has very little that is new to comment on.

I agree the 40s were a better time. Cops on the beat would kick your ass if you were picking on another kid. Much more effective justice than what we have now.

[Mobrocratica]

Better fashion sense back then as well....just sayin.

captain Chaos

[Republic of Embara]

Oct 15, 2012 19:18:06 GMT -5 Cerb said:

Oct 15, 2012 16:44:35 GMT -5 Ad Infinitum said:

Did anyone commit suicide because they were picked on back in the '40s? To my knowledge, people just learned to stand up and fight back. Is this sort of thing just more public now, or are people just that much more soft? Or are we just so d**n bored that this is actually news-worthy?

Then again, at least in the '40s if you wanted to send topless pictures to strangers you had to use a bulletin board in the diner, and if you wanted to have sex with said strangers you could get away with it anonymously. Those were better times.

I have no sympathy. I'm gonna go watch Felix jump out of space again. Because that is actually something that matters.

Yeah, people did top themselves because of things like this. The world has very little that is new to comment on.

I agree the 40s were a better time. Cops on the beat would kick your ass if you were picking on another kid. Much more effective justice than what we have now.

what, the cops that either are too corrupt to do their job or are too afraid that they're going to be slammed by some ridiculous group about them doing their job?

[Cerb]

They are pretty powerless.

[Mobrocratica]

Yea and honestly the justice system in itself is so corrupt most people are more afraid of going there than just trying to solve the problem themselves.

Captain Chaos

[Autonomina]

I don't really believe the authorities are at fault here (read: police). She said herself, she didn't press charges or notify anyone. It would have been a good assault case especially with video evidence. That said, I don't think it's just a matter of putting up with it and feeding off the abuse, find me a fifteen year-old who can't get off of facebook. It sounds ridiculous but that's a huge part of social interactions, it's an extrapolation of the kid who used to act up in class for attention, and as far as that goes, social network sites have had their times of benefitting someone in trouble like that, so it's really just a matter of putting herself out there in hopes of getting some reassurance. It also has potential to go deeper than that, people that get kicked around like that do tend to go back for more, for whatever reason, could be the attention thing, not sure, but it doesn't necessarily make them the ones at fault. Socially more could be done to try to return decency to youth and the rest of the population (far be it from me to go about doing that) or at least make these crimes much more serious, and applicable to all persons who willingly commit them regardless of age. I'm not the biggest fan of prison systems but sometimes I don't see many other options.
Autonomina

[Cerb]

Kids do not need to be on facebook. Period.

It exposes them to an addictive and distracting world where popularity is more important than achieving examination results or taking part in proper social activities.

It's bad enough being an unpopular kid in school, it's even worse when random trolls can make fun of you through another medium. Being at home used to be somewhat of a sanctuary, but now people can attack you verbally while you are trying to do homework or even while you are supposed to be in bed.

We've opened the door and allowed underage people access to a poisonous culture where there are no limitations or social conventions on just how rude you can be to someone.

If parents want to prevent teen suicide, they need to stop letting school and social media do the parenting, and take the responsibility back on themselves.

[Ad Infinitum]

Not to mention that it makes kids lazy and makes them want to grow up faster. But not in the responsible way.

[Percile]

Although if you do not want to be bothered on facebook just don't go on it

[Firstaria]

SHOCKING NEWS: Internet is an evil beast.

No shit, people should know that Internet is WAY TOO FREE. It's something that auto-regulate itself, and that means it will require a lot more time before the auto-regulation will fully kick in, especially if we consider human stupidity.

During this time, we need to be part of the auto-regulation. At this point Internet is EVERYWERE, tell a kid to not use it is INVITING HIM TO USE IT, so it's the stupidest thing you could do.

Your job as a parent is to educate him on internet, to use it and how evil it could be. Same with phones and everything else. Not even the Spartans were that evil to just give a sword to a kid and hope he would not get hurt, they learned him to use it before throwing him into the wild.

Parents that just ban these things are lazy as parents who permits them, and they will have the same problem. Just look how much well it worked saying to kids " Do not smoke, it's bad ". Put them in front of a photo of how a lung is after 10 years of smoking is way better.

[Ad Infinitum]

Oct 16, 2012 12:39:58 GMT -5 Firstaria said:

Parents that just ban these things are lazy as parents who permits them, and they will have the same problem. Just look how much well it worked saying to kids " Do not smoke, it's bad ". Put them in front of a photo of how a lung is after 10 years of smoking is way better.

This. This is one of my biggest arguments for gun control as well. Regulate, don't ban. A ban is easier, but lazier, and not even remotely effective. Regulation of luxuries for children teaches value, limits, and restraint. Keeping something from a child makes them want it more, and they learn to be sneaky about getting it.

[Percile]

I agree. It is just like having a big red button that says do not press. The vast majority of kids would press it. It is just like the internet, if you block a certain website the kid is only going to try harder to get onto it.

[Cerb]

Here's the thing. You don't give them their own PC in their own room.

You make the PC public and have them use it under supervision. The computer should be a learning tool, not a social device.

Now here we've got some dumba$$ that is legislating that each high school student gets a laptop. Once again the nation is making parenting decisions and it's simply wrong.

Thank goodness I have no children. I'd hate for them to be in this pop culture where the only important thing is how many facebook friends and likes you can acquire.

[Firstaria]

Oct 16, 2012 13:21:10 GMT -5 Cerb said:

Here's the thing. You don't give them their own PC in their own room.

You make the PC public and have them use it under supervision. The computer should be a learning tool, not a social device.

Now here we've got some dumba$$ that is legislating that each high school student gets a laptop. Once again the nation is making parenting decisions and it's simply wrong.

Thank goodness I have no children. I'd hate for them to be in this pop culture where the only important thing is how many facebook friends and likes you can acquire.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Sorry, I had to just laugh thinking at the many ways I could go around that limitation he just proposed.

Kids work this way: tell them do to something, they will; tell them to not do something, they will for curiosity; show them HORRIBLE consequences of doing something, they will not do it unless they have mental problems.

....Actually, that is the vademecum for HUMANITY.

[Agidanya]

I must take issue with all of those who put the blame on the victim for not getting off facebook. Yes, people can take some steps to protect themselves, such as making their profiles more private. Nevertheless, there should still be some onus on those who use the tool for evil.

When I was in high school, some kids stole my (school required) daytimer off my desk and wrote some malicious comments in it. Is that my fault because the book was somewhere these bullies could reach it? Or was it their fault for actually doing it?

To use a more extreme example, if my neighbour comtinually breaks imto my home, is that my fault for living there and continuimg to live there, or the neighbour's for comtinually breaking in?

All I can really say is I am grateful facebook didin't exist when I was in high school- I took enough s**t without meeding to add cyberbullying to the mix.

And for those speaking of the '40s, don't think such suicides didn't happen. They just weren't so widely publicised back then.

[Cerb]

Oct 16, 2012 15:07:23 GMT -5 Firstaria said:

Oct 16, 2012 13:21:10 GMT -5 Cerb said:

Here's the thing. You don't give them their own PC in their own room.

You make the PC public and have them use it under supervision. The computer should be a learning tool, not a social device.

Now here we've got some dumba$$ that is legislating that each high school student gets a laptop. Once again the nation is making parenting decisions and it's simply wrong.

Thank goodness I have no children. I'd hate for them to be in this pop culture where the only important thing is how many facebook friends and likes you can acquire.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

Sorry, I had to just laugh thinking at the many ways I could go around that limitation he just proposed.

Kids work this way: tell them do to something, they will; tell them to not do something, they will for curiosity; show them HORRIBLE consequences of doing something, they will not do it unless they have mental problems.

....Actually, that is the vademecum for HUMANITY.

Perhaps you'd have less fun when you find me blocking access because I packet sniffed the traffic and now not only did you lose internet privilidges, but are also grounded and have no TV access either.

Keep it up and you won't have a bedroom door.

Oh believe me, for every devious thing a teen can come up with, I can be more devious.

Up to and including installing key loggers and then signing in to their facebook account and posting their baby pictures. Especially the ones when they were on the potty.

AHAHAAHAHAHAHA.

I can easily be the parent from hell.