Why does poverty exist?

[Mutanatia]

video.msnbc.msn.com/melissa-harris-perry/51859385

This video spotlights the arguments as to how poverty can be solved. So far, no Presidential administration has been able to solve American poverty. Melissa Harris-Perry argues that poverty can be solved. After all, it is the American dream. Currently, 16.1% Americans are living in poverty. Some suggestions the panel has are that poverty still exists due to societal attitudes towards the poor, there is not enough investment into wages, and that young children are not invested into enough. Some other suggestions are that politicians are afraid to make the "hard decisions," and that public opinion is against effective programs. Why do YOU think poverty exists?

[Fruition]

Poverty exists, because each individual living in society is not inclined to share wages or profits with another individual.
As a result, competition amongst individual, organizations, markets, companies emerges, causing people to receive profit only through working hard and getting the job by surpassing other people, in terms of skills, aptitudes, and more.

There have been some who have longed for the elimination of poverty through ideologies, such as communism; however, that could not come to fruition, due to the fact that the party distributing the resources of a state, nation, or even an organization hoarded the resources for themselves, distributing only paltry amounts.

[Ayunli]

It exists because everyone wants to better than someone else - through power, money, looks, etc. Noone wants everybody on an equal playing field. Therefore, everyone is trying to get the top. Naturally, there are people that, for a variety of reasons (money, healthcare, education, jobs available, etc) have extreme difficulty even attempting another step towards the top. Also, many people tend to have the attitude where if you are poor they automatically assume it is because of your health (such as a disability) or because you're a lazy good-for-nothin'. However, there are many people out there who are poor simply becausr they were born into a poor family, and because of lack of resources, end up repeating the cycle with their children. There are many programs out there trying to help people get the education and job skills necessary to get out of piverty, but the success usually depends on how good the economy is as to wether they can even find a job in the 1st place. And lastly, there is always guaranteed to be poverty in america simply due to the fact that there are drug addicts, alcoholics, the mentally ill, and people released from jail/prison that either can't or won't take care of themselves - many simply give up on trying to get out of poverty, therefore staying in poverty for the rest of their lives. Many people assume that poverty is a choice, but for many it's not. For those who do choose it, they don't want to get out of it, therdfore there will always be piverty, both in America and in the entire world.

[Greek People Nation (GPN)]

First off, you have an article from MSNBC. That is one of the most bias new stations. Second, it exist because we can't have an utopia. Third, in America, people get paid more to be on welfare than to get a real job. So why should they work. Fourth, government is getting to involved in private companies. Fifth, the generation now thinks that they should be handed things instead of working for it. Sixth, America is teaching its children that no one is better than the other. This is a lie. There needs to be competition. That is what makes people work harder and better. Seventh, that is what the government wants. DEPENDENCY. People can get jobs. They choose not to. Anyone can do anything they set their mind to. It is that person’s choice whether they do it or not. Is there poverty? Yes, I don’t disagree with that. There will always be poverty in every society. It is up to the person to change whether they are in poverty or not.

[Aersoldorf]

Excellent points GPN

[New Ecopia]

I'm currently doing geography in high school and to my current knowledge poverty does exist.

[New Ecopia]

The reason for poverty is due to capitalism.

[Alterrum]

Jul 25, 2013 16:59:07 GMT -5 Greek People Nation (GPN) said:

Sixth, America is teaching its children that no one is better than the other. This is a lie. There needs to be competition. That is what makes people work harder and better.

I agree with the latter, but I disagree with your point. There needs to be competition between companies - this is absolutely healthy and good for everyone. But competition shouldn't exist on an individual level, or at least one shouldn't try to be better than someone else. One should try to be better than himself, and if they can, help others on the same mission. This way you can achieve much more than trying to oust others.

Also, I don't think that teaching people that everyone is equal is something new. This idea exists in the American constitution as well.

Thirdly, it is also not a lie, in an economic sense at least, as both Sweden and Finland, two relatively egalitarian countries have a higher competitiveness ranking than the United States.

In conclusion, I believe that competition on a personal level isn't directly related to market competition, and from there, economic performance and poverty.

[Greek People Nation (GPN)]

New Ecopia: Please tell me how capitalism creates poverty. I am ready to hear this.

Alterrum: Yes competition is needed for companies. In regards to the constitution, that all is created equal with natural rights as human beings. The equal I am talking about is that no one is better than the other person. What I mean by this is that not everyone can be equal in things like talent, being smart things like that. The fact of life is that some people are better than others. We Americans need to get back to teaching our kids that things want be handed out to you and that you need to work for it. Failure is needed. That is how people learn and make themselves better. Life is not fair and things don't come easy. Try to be the best. If you fail, you know that you gave it your all and you can't be faulted for that. I hope this makes more sense to you. Let me know.

[Greek People Nation (GPN)]

Jul 25, 2013 23:30:53 GMT -5 New Ecopia said:

I'm currently doing geography in high school and to my current knowledge poverty does exist.

Quick question, do you go to a private school or public school?

No one is saying that poverty exist, the question is why does it exist.

[Aersoldorf]

I believe that corporations and banks are the primary reasons that poverty exists. They put money and profit before their employees and customers. The only thing they care about is the bottom line. As long as we accept that idea as normal, we'll always be their slaves and the divide between rich and poor will continue to widen

[Greek People Nation (GPN)]

Aersoldorf: You make a valid point. That is another reason why the banks should failed and not given a bailout from the American taxpayers. Same with any company that should have failed. That is an example of government intruding in the lives of private organizations.

[New Ecopia]

Jul 26, 2013 16:16:06 GMT -5 Greek People Nation (GPN) said:

Jul 25, 2013 23:30:53 GMT -5 New Ecopia said:

I'm currently doing geography in high school and to my current knowledge poverty does exist.

Quick question, do you go to a private school or public school?

No one is saying that poverty exist, the question is why does it exist.

private

[New Ecopia]

Jul 26, 2013 16:12:48 GMT -5 Greek People Nation (GPN) said:

New Ecopia: Please tell me how capitalism creates poverty. I am ready to hear this.

Alterrum: Yes competition is needed for companies. In regards to the constitution, that all is created equal with natural rights as human beings. The equal I am talking about is that no one is better than the other person. What I mean by this is that not everyone can be equal in things like talent, being smart things like that. The fact of life is that some people are better than others. We Americans need to get back to teaching our kids that things want be handed out to you and that you need to work for it. Failure is needed. That is how people learn and make themselves better. Life is not fair and things don't come easy. Try to be the best. If you fail, you know that you gave it your all and you can't be faulted for that. I hope this makes more sense to you. Let me know.

How capitalism breeds poverty

The horrific spectacle of tens of thousands of people stranded, and effectively abandoned, for days in New Orleans in the wake of Hurricane Katrina has shocked the US and the world. With the death toll estimated to be in the thousands, the fact that class and race discriminated against the victims poses important questions about our society.

News commentators and politicians have been at a loss to explain away these disturbing facts. The public is left to ask: How could such levels of poverty and desperation exist in the richest country in the world? How could the supposed ‘model for the free world’ have created such poverty and despair?

Life-threatening Poverty

It has become clear to millions that no one in government was prepared to develop, let alone implement, an evacuation plan for those without automobiles or to protect and rescue the victims. As a result, thousands are estimated to have died.

Robert Bullard, founder and director of the Environmental Justice Center at Clark Atlanta University, said: “When something happens like this, most aren’t able to pack up and drive 300 miles and buy gas and check into a hotel with no credit card … This is a race and class issue.” According to estimates, over 80,000 residents had no way out of the city.

27% of New Orleans’ 485,000 residents live below the poverty level. 67% are African American, with more than 50% of them living in poverty.

At the heart of this issue are the conditions of poverty and economic abandonment faced by hundreds of thousands of urban working-class families. With no access to an automobile, the absence of any serious public transportation alternative, and lacking a credit card as a means to book a motel room, conditions of poverty became life-threatening.

Conditions in New Orleans

A central tenant of this system is that to have a decent life you need to have a living-wage job. In New Orleans, or almost any other of the largest 50 cities in the country, poverty, low-wage jobs, and unemployment are the norm for tens of millions of Americans.

According to the 2000 census, the poverty level in the devastated Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans is 36.4%. A quarter of households have an annual income of less than $10,000. Half live on less than $20,000. Half of those living in the ward are categorized as ‘not in the labor force’ because they have given up looking for a job.

African Americans, and now also Latinos and other recent immigrants, are systematically shut out of opportunities for decent living-wage jobs and segregated into the poorest neighborhoods. In the case of New Orleans, that meant neighborhoods like the Lower Ninth Ward, which is the lowest-lying, swamp-infested region of New Orleans.

The Lower Ninth Ward was one of the last regions of the city occupied. It was an area hit hard by Hurricane Betsy in 1965. Despite appeals, new safety systems were not introduced.

In New Orleans as a whole, the literacy rate is only 40%. More than two classrooms of young students drop out of the Louisiana school system every day. Louisiana spends an average of $4,724 per child on education, with only four states paying lower teacher salaries.

But conditions in New Orleans are not unique. They mirror the kind of life tens of millions of poor working-class families suffer through, everyday, across America: a country where 40 million Americans live below the official poverty line; where one in three children are poor; where, according to The Children’s Defense Fund, nearly one million African American children live in extreme poverty; where the real level of unemployment, when you count those too discouraged to look for work, approaches 10%; and where corporate-backed politicians have prided themselves on having shredded the safety net for the poor.

The corporate media always portrays this as some form of personal failure. In coming months, many promises will be made that federal handouts will rectify this. Promises have been made before. Following the eruption of blacks in the inner cites in the mid-1960s, the political system was shamed into providing some relief. But 40 years later, conditions for the majority of workers and the urban poor are worse than ever.

The simple fact is the creation of poverty is a product of our economic system. It is a necessary by-product of capitalism. It flows from the internal workings of the system, which allows a few rich owners of vast capital to extract the labor of its workers for a pittance.

The extreme polarization of wealth in the U.S. has been accelerated and exacerbated by the neo-liberal policies pursued by both major parties during the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and so far this decade. The fact that the presidential candidates for both the Democratic and Republican parties in 2004 never focused on the conditions in the inner cities is an expression of this.

Profit at the Expense of Cuts in Public Spending

The guiding philosophy of both political parties is rooted in the idea that making conditions good for corporate owners (investors) will provide for all Americans. Under this philosophy, called neo-liberalism, removing all laws that constrain business profits is considered beneficial to the economy and to the U.S. public. In other words, that means slashing government programs and laws which do not directly benefit owners of capital (i.e. the richest 0.1% of the public).

The past 25 years have seen drastic, extreme, and devastating cuts in spending in all areas of life, whether for housing, schools, public hospitals, public transportation, the infrastructure, job programs, welfare, etc. For example, federal support for low-income people’s housing was slashed from $32 billion in 1978 to only $5.7 billion in 1988. That’s a decline of more than 80%, when adjusted for inflation. It has since been almost completely eliminated.

The refusal of the Bush administration to spend money to repair the levees is only a very sharp example of the complete abandonment of infrastructure spending flowing from the neo-liberal model. A study by the American Society of Engineers in March 2005 described how cuts in funding for bridges, public transportation, dams, schools, the drinking supply system, etc. means that a whopping $1.6 trillion would need to be spent over the next five years to bring the nation’s infrastructure up to date.

Funding has been slashed for education at the federal and state level. As a result, the literacy rate of the U.S. has dropped from 18th to 49th place among the world’s nations. In a massive study conducted by the National Adult Literacy Survey, over 90 million adult Americans, nearly one out of two, were found to be functionally illiterate, without the minimum literacy skills required in a modern society. Forty-four million adults were found to be unable read a newspaper or fill out a job application, while a further 50 million could not read or comprehend above the eighth grade level.

City, state, and federal politicians have gone on an orgy of cuts to taxes and regulations on the corporations and their rich owners. A big handout has been privatizing public services. This reduces taxes for the rich and allows them to directly profit from those services, resulting in demands for lower wages and cost cutting. This results in lowering the quality of services – i.e., few public hospitals, poorer quality public housing, further unemployment and lower wages for those in the community. All these are recipes for further inner-city poverty.

The policies of neo-liberalism have hit African Americans and Latinos the hardest. The consequences can be seen in New Orleans with the recent removal of housing projects under the program Hope VI. This resulted in 7,000 poor people, mainly African Americans, being thrown in the street to join the countless others looking for work, without even a roof over their heads.

This dismantlement of government programs and government spending has been a huge boom for the profits of corporations and the super rich who own the bulk of shares. Now the horrific social consequences of these actions have erupted to the surface. But this is only one part of the neo-liberal program.

An essential weapon in the neo-liberal assault has been the demand for free trade. Corporate owners want to be ‘free’ to operate in any community they want, based on who can guarantee them cheaper labor and less restrictions on profit-making. If that means abandoning whole communities and moving operations to a different region or country, so be it.

Low Wages

To boost their profits, employers have ruthlessly attacked wages, benefits, and working conditions. Both political parties collaborated in refusing to raise the minimum wage, resulting in tens of million of workers seeing their living standards drop below the poverty line. Restrictions have been increased on eligibility for unemployment benefits. Fewer and fewer workers now qualify for any unemployment benefits, resulting in tens of millions dropping off the rolls and forced to live without any income.

Inherent in capitalism has been the maintenance of a sizeable pool of unemployed workers living on the edge of poverty who are desperate for jobs. It keeps workers competing with each other to get jobs, allowing corporate owners to keep wages low. This was first described by Karl Marx, the founder of scientific socialism, as an essential weapon used by capitalists to keep down wages. When this political and economic system is judged by future inhabitants of the planet, this policy will be judged, correctly, as one of the greatest crimes against humanity

Former Wall Street executive David Driver summed it up well: “The United States is the most capitalistic of major industrialized nations. This is not because America is a leader in per-capita gross domestic product, per-capita income, or productivity growth, for it is not. America does, however, have one of the most pro-business, inequitable, and inhumane socioeconomic systems in the industrialized world…It certainly does not benefit the average citizen, not does it benefit the country as a whole.”

Or, as John Hinderaker, a board member for the Center of the American Experiment, a conservative think-tank, said: “There’s more opportunity in the American economy today than at any time in its history. It’s important to point out that income inequality isn’t a bad thing, it’s a good thing.” The viewpoint of the capitalist class couldn’t be better put.

This neo-liberal attack has lead to a massive increase in corporate profits. Just from 1980 to 1995, corporate revenues rose 129.5%, corporate profits rose 127% and executive pay rose 182%. The richest 1% of the population now owns more wealth than the bottom 90%. There has been a massive shift in wealth from the working class to the capitalist class.

The Democratic Party

The Democrats have attempted put the blame for these policies on Republicans. We should not be fooled by this. The facts show they have gone along with this whole agenda. It was Democratic President Carter who began the whole cycle of deregulation of industries.

The promises made by the Democrats are only to get workers to vote them into office. Once in office, they have followed their corporate funders’ directives. President Clinton abandoned his election promise to provide healthcare for all, using his political capital to push through the free trade treaty NAFTA and the creation of the free trade watchguard, the WTO.

At times, the Democrats have led the charge. For example, President Clinton, a conservative southern Democrat, made a central plank of his 1996 reelection campaign the promise to ”end welfare as we know it.” The plan of the Democrats was to get out in front of the Republicans by promising to attack the most vulnerable citizens in our society – poor mothers and children. This was to secure more corporate backing for their party than the Republicans.

They destroyed one of the key gains won by the mass union struggles of the 1930s. These working-class struggles also won the 40-hour workweek, social security, and led to a general rise in wages for tens of millions of workers.

Clinton’s new welfare law stated: “no individual or family shall be entitled to any benefits or services.” In other words, families who lose their jobs will no longer receive a guarantee of any income. This forces workers to take any job at any wage, if they can find one. Those who can’t find one have been abandoned economically. They are forced to live by their wits and whatever else they can draw on, to put food on the table and a roof over their families’ heads.

Clinton also presided over a massive layoff of federal workers as part of his “reinventing government” policy. He intensified the racist policy of increasing the militarization of the border with Mexico. He oversaw the criminal policy of Iraqi sanctions, which resulted in the deaths of over a million Iraqis. Presidential candidate John Kerry offered no substantial alternative to Bush, promising to continue his free-trade policies, the war in Iraq, and the whole neo-liberal agenda.

Both the Republican and Democratic parties were set up and are controlled by big business. Despite populist rhetoric and differences on some issues, their central agenda has been to further the interests of the owners of the large corporations.

These policies have been carried out irrespective of which political party has won elections. Every piece of legislation that becomes law has to be passed by the House and the Senate and signed by the president. Except for two short periods of two years, no party has controlled all these institutions during the last 40 years. It can be said, definitively, that these policies are bipartisan.

The Politics of Poverty and Crime

Shut out of the economic system, disenfranchised by a political system dominated by big-business political parties, and ignored by the corporate media, the genuine and real suffering of the poor has been hidden by the dominant U.S. culture. Worse still, they have been demonized. Under such conditions, it is no wonder that acts of desperation occur.

The response of both political parties to the desperate acts of those living in poverty, whether seeking employment in the drug trade or other schemes, has been to use the criminal justice system. This deliberate policy of criminalizing poverty has led to the highest incarceration rate of any country in the world.

Over one million African Americans are now behind bars, as drugs and HIV/AIDS have flowed into inner cites devoid of hope of finding living-wage jobs. It is such conditions that have allowed gangs and violent criminals to terrorize whole communities, events which are distorted by the corporate media to condemn those living in the community.

Consider the response of the Louisiana governor, Kathleen Blanco, to the desperate actions of the poor in New Orleans in the first week of the tragedy. She declared a shoot-to-kill policy for anyone found looting. This immediately brings back memories of the lynching of blacks during the days of Jim Crow laws in the South.

Damu Smith, founder of Black Voices for Peace and ten-year resident of Louisiana, put it this way: “I want zero tolerance for that kind of language being used by leaders of our government to discuss poor people, black people, who are trying to survive in the – under the most desperate, insane circumstances. I want zero tolerance for thousands of our troops being sent to Iraq when we need them here. I want zero tolerance for public officials going before the airwaves talking about the wonderful things that they’re doing when the head of FEMA yesterday said that he didn’t know that there were thousands of black people, thousands of people at the New Orleans center, between 15,000 and 20,000 people are there with no food and no water, and last night he said he didn’t know that.”

Time for a Radical Change

The class and race issues brought up by this tragedy show the desperate need for a radical change in U.S. society. The hundreds of thousands left abandoned in the poor areas of New Orleans without jobs, with crumbling schools, lack of public hospitals, and without any hope of getting them, have given Americans a glimpse of the ugly underbelly of this system.

As an immediate first step, we need to enact a massive public works program to rebuild the region of New Orleans and other devastated areas of Louisiana and Mississippi. This should be done by offering jobs and, if needed, training to those who have been displaced. The millions of unemployed and underemployed in the region should also be hired. This work should all be done at a living wage, and with full union rights and benefits.

However, conditions in New Orleans are an extreme example of the dire conditions facing tens of millions of workers in other cities and regions of the country. We need to set up similar massive programs of public works in these other cities and regions. This would include work to rebuild the infrastructure, build quality public housing, hospitals, transportation, schools, etc. Reallocation of investment and the hiring of unemployed workers could create new productive industries and factories, which would provide for the needs of working-class people living in those communities.

Such a rebuilding of the economy could ensure every person in the country had decent housing, a guaranteed living wage, access to quality healthcare and child care, and security in their old age. Funding must also be made available to clean up environmental pollution and to reallocate scientists to address the massive environmental problems related to global warming and work out a plan to reverse them.

An Alternative to Capitalism

We should be under no illusions that the capitalist system can do this. The sizeable period of economic growth of the 1950s and 1960s is over. It was based on the period of the explosive emergence of U.S. capitalism during the turn of the last century, and a temporary period of worldwide superiority of U.S. manufacturing in the aftermath of World War II.

Today, we see a world economic slowdown, with U.S. corporations shutting down production here in search of areas that produce higher rates of profit. The economic engine of jobs, which helped some workers in previous generations to get out of the ghettos, will not be reoccurring. The vast majority of jobs created under Clinton and Bush have been low-wage jobs, which have replaced higher-wage jobs. Under the rule of capitalism, the majority of the public faces further sharp attacks on their living standards and quality of life, with a growing number being forced into dire poverty, homelessness, and destitution.

Capitalism is a system designed to produce for private profit, not for public need. It is only by taking decision-making out of the corporate boardrooms and placing them under the democratic control of the majority that the economy can provide for our needs. To do that, we need to bring into public ownership the largest 500 corporations and financial institutions.

If the assets of these giant companies were under our democratic control, then investment and resources could be democratically controlled by working-class people. Resources would be available to address our most pressing social problems and allocated to areas of most need.

To achieve this means breaking from giving any support to the two big-business political parties - the Republicans and Democrats. They are both fully implicated in creating the present mess we are in. We need to build a new political party to represent our interests as workers, the poor and young people, and which points a finger at the real villains, the super-rich and the capitalist system.

Freed from control by corporate sponsors, this workers’ party could put forward a program that addresses our needs. It would be able to end this system of capitalism, which has been responsible for enriching a tiny group of billionaires at a time of massive need and poverty. We could then create a new democratic socialist society, where the working-class majority would have the power rather than the 1% who are rewarded under this system.

[Aersoldorf]

While I do believe that corporations and banks do far more harm than good, I'm not willing to blame them for the problems following Katrina. If I know a week in advance that a massive storm is coming my way, then it is MY responsibility to see to the safety of my family. I'm not going to wait until the flood comes and then try to lay the blame on others for not protecting me. If you choose to live below sea level and know that a massive hurricane is headed your way, then you're an idiot if you don't try to get out in advance - even if you have to walk.

[Greek People Nation (GPN)]

New Ecopia: Before I fully give a response, I would like to know where you got your statistics and references from.

The only thing that I will respond to now is that race has nothing to do with anything. That is another excuse for people to use. Every race has the same opportunity as the next to succeed in life. They have no one to blame but themselves if they never do anything. People need to take responsibility for their own actions and quit blaming others for it. With Katrina, that falls on the people themselves and the local governments that did nothing. People stayed back because they wanted to loot, nothing more. Even when the government try to help, the people trying to help were being shot at. Was the stadium the best choice, at the time yes, in the long run no. But that didn't stop people from killing and raping the people that were in the same situation as them. The whole race issue is getting old. Time to take responsibility for yourself.

[New Ecopia]

Jul 27, 2013 15:09:54 GMT -5 Greek People Nation (GPN) said:

New Ecopia: Before I fully give a response, I would like to know where you got your statistics and references from.

The only thing that I will respond to now is that race has nothing to do with anything. That is another excuse for people to use. Every race has the same opportunity as the next to succeed in life. They have no one to blame but themselves if they never do anything. People need to take responsibility for their own actions and quit blaming others for it. With Katrina, that falls on the people themselves and the local governments that did nothing. People stayed back because they wanted to loot, nothing more. Even when the government try to help, the people trying to help were being shot at. Was the stadium the best choice, at the time yes, in the long run no. But that didn't stop people from killing and raping the people that were in the same situation as them. The whole race issue is getting old. Time to take responsibility for yourself.

Here is my source: Socialist World

[Benevolent Thomas]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the decades leading up to the new millennium we were actually actively combating poverty and actually making progress. Of course since the Clinton and later administrations the wealth gap has vastly increased and the middle class is shrinking. Poverty is an unfortunate side effect of a laissez faire economy which also causes a greater chance of social mobility. The nations that have the least amount of poverty in them are Scandinavian nations where the income tax rate nears 50%. These nations have greater income equality and the world's largest middle class. But then again... 50% of your income goes to the government.

[HumanSanity]

Aug 4, 2013 22:29:15 GMT -5 Benevolent Thomas said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the decades leading up to the new millennium we were actually actively combating poverty and actually making progress. Of course since the Clinton and later administrations the wealth gap has vastly increased and the middle class is shrinking. Poverty is an unfortunate side effect of a laissez faire economy which also causes a greater chance of social mobility. The nations that have the least amount of poverty in them are Scandinavian nations where the income tax rate nears 50%. These nations have greater income equality and the world's largest middle class. But then again... 50% of your income goes to the government.

Yes and in the back the government just has a huge paper shredder that they put all of your money into. No. You're getting services out of that money.

[Benevolent Thomas]

I never said that you didn't get services with that money. I actually like what they do with the money, I just don't think I would like having substantially less disposable income. Their investments in education and childcare are the envy of the world.

[Cerb]

Of course, the government doesn't have the money, the Federal Reserve does, which is hardly an encouraging situation.

As for poverty? Welcome to natural selection and the environment scaled up and civilized.

Are wolves capitalist? They sure are, even though they live in a social pack. The strong eat the most of any kill and the lowest have to either learn to fight for more or starve. That is how their society remains strong.

Gorrilas? Same thing. Ever heard the phrase "lion's share"? It's certainly not because lions are socialist.

Humans are predatory and by nature opportunistic omnivores. If you go with pure biological evolutionary theory that is our basic nature. That attitude put us on top of the dog pile. Just because we now wear clothing doesn't make us any different on a basic urge level. You can cry that we are civilized and should now care for our fellow man, but you are asking for a fundamental shift in the way people are built, and it is something religions and social experiments have tried to change for as long as man has existed.

That is why there is poverty. Because humans are predatory and didn't evolve from sheep.

If you want me to start caring about other humans, then you will need to convince me that they are something more than animals.

Of course, I do care but that is my soul talking but as any decent biologist would point out, there is no such thing as a soul.

[Indigo Seas]

It exists because of the way society is set up. The belief in which each man works to gain his own. In a capitalist society, for someone to be rich, another has to suffer. There simply is no way in a completely capitalist society for poverty to be wiped away. It works because pf greed...because an equal country would result in those who wanted more emigrating to the places where they can.

And because whenever America tries to implement any sort of social support policies, there seems to be a big outcry from many people saying that it's there right to not pay as much taxes. A lot of my income may well go to the government, but I've never had to worry about paying for medications, or medical care, in my life. I've never had to worry that if I'm made unemployed through no fault of my own, I'll be evicted and end up on the streets. And that's something that's a great reassurance.

And for those that claim the world could cope without taxes...take a look at the economic situation in Greece at present. Although a lot of people over there seem to think it's the EU's duty to bail them out so that they don't have to deal with higher taxes as there economy is going down.

[Witchcraft and Sorcery]

Before I do my whole left-wing rant on how much big corporations suck, I want to point out a few things: First, everyone here is making very valid points. Second, HS is right. The government doesn't just waste all of our money on elaborate steak dinners for their dogs, they ACTUALLY HELP US. Tell me, do you like your public parks? Public schools? Do you enjoy your paved city streets that you can drive your car down? If you like either of those or countless other government services then TAXES ARE A GOOD THING. They make the government work for us. Now, that doesn't mean it's perfect, but when I have to begin paying taxes when I turn 18 or get a job I know that good will come out of it.

Okay, on to poverty, the real question of debate: Firstly I think poverty exists because, well, Aerso kind of said it. The corporations set it up so that they can get richer and the poor get poorer. Then they pay off the government to turn a blind eye and feed them more money in the form of riders and tax exemptions so they can mistreat the poor, who they have already dehumanized by not giving them a fair shot at wealth. While I think that government and taxes are usually a good thing I agree that they have flaws, as in they are part of the rich culture and therefore are willing to overlook the poor, and they hate paying taxes, so what do they do? They tax the poor even more to make up for the lost income, 'cause they sure as hell won't pay.

I don't think it's the tax burden that's the problem, I think that the poor are being made to pick up the slack that that the rich leave and everyone else is turning a blind eye to it. I just think that everyone should be treated equally when we pay our taxes. New Ecopia, yes, to some extent it is capitalism that caused the problem, but think realistically. Is the capitalist system going to go anywhere soon? You're crazy if you think so. We can't overthrow it, but we can fix it so that the balance of public and private shifts back to normal. Where the CEOs aren't getting their massive bonuses for ripping off their workers.

Greek People Nation (GPN), since you seem to be on the complete opposite end of the spectrum I will address your points next. You said in one of your first posts that MSNBC is biased. I'll give you that, but where are you getting most of your stats? Fox News? Also, you say it's up to the person to change their own status, but HOW CAN THEY DO THAT IF THEY AREN'T GIVEN A FAIR SHOT? The government and corporations have created a web of lies in which they trap the poor and keep them there. The only thing the US Congress can agree on now is that their salary should be higher, but they won't even pass that because of the 27th Amendment. They don't want to give someone else who might take their place a higher salary. It's a perfect example of the me-first mentality that has taken an iron grip over the rich culture not just in the US but all around the world. The poor are less than human because they don't have and can't get the necessary wealth to be granted full "human" status.

I guess in conclusion, both sides are wrong. The extreme socialist left-wing solution is almost as deluded as the extreme right, and you both provide excellent examples of how much the world SUCKS right now. I'm sorry for the rant but that's my honest feeling about a topic I think shouldn't even need to be discussed.

[Stinpus]

Jul 25, 2013 23:32:15 GMT -5 New Ecopia said:

The reason for poverty is due to capitalism.

That's a lie the reason there is poverty and always is because people are fundamentally greedy as well as there not being enough resources world to satisfy everyone therefore we fight over them and the man who is the fighter is not going to stop when he has what he needs. Who here gives more than 5 percent of their wages to charity and does it make you greedy if you do not or does it just mean that you feel your own interests are of more important

[New Ecopia]

Aug 19, 2013 2:06:50 GMT -5 Stinpus said:

Jul 25, 2013 23:32:15 GMT -5 New Ecopia said:

The reason for poverty is due to capitalism.

That's a lie the reason there is poverty and always is because people are fundamentally greedy as well as there not being enough resources world to satisfy everyone therefore we fight over them and the man who is the fighter is not going to stop when he has what he needs. Who here gives more than 5 percent of their wages to charity and does it make you greedy if you do not or does it just mean that you feel your own interests are of more important

Well doesn't capitalism promotes greed in the first place?

[Surdra]

It promotes competition, greed is a universal human trait.

[Stinpus]

communism is is a utopian view world which can never succeed capitalism while not perfect can actually work it also not in the interest of the business to have people not in poverty as shops need to sell overpriced goods to them.the way to lower poverty is through giving everyone worthwhile skills not by giving them free money or forcing business to over man themselves. poverty will always plague humanity but how can we lower it to a sustainable level.

[Friendly House Cats]

Communism is (in my opinion) is an example of too much of a good thing.
When I say it is because of capitalism, that is not to say that I am communist. I am actually socialist.

[Stinpus]

and what is which means socialism can solve the problem.

[Dolantown]

Poverty exists because not everyone wants to pay their neighbor's wages.