Edward Snowden: Whistleblower, Traitor, or Other?

[Byzesion]

Earlier today, Edward Snowden (who leaked the existence of several National Security Agency mass surveillance programs) was given temporary asylum in Russia for up to one year. In the wake of all of this, I wanted to know how the people here feel about him.

Personally...well, let me put it this way: I'm glad he did what he did, I'm glad that these programs came to light because they represent in my mind steps toward a dystopian hellscape of fear and paranoia. But I think the way that he carried it out and the superior, holier-than-thou attitude he's adopted while hiding in a country where homosexuals are beaten and arrested by police for protesting their unfair treatment and journalists investigating government corruption "mysteriously" turn up dead makes him an a**hole.

[Benevolent Thomas]

Better than staying in the country that just sentenced another wistleblower a jail term that will last the rest of his life. Of course I do not agree with Russia's policies when it comes to just about anything, but if I were Snowden, I wouldn't want to spend the rest of my life behind bars.

[Byzesion]

Well, first off, Bradley Manning hasn't been given a sentence yet. Second, I agree that the whole situation with him never should have happened in the first place. Manning is by any reasonable definition a whistleblower. He found something that was wrong by any standard and he brought it out. What's happened to Bradley Manning is a f**king crime, and no matter what his sentence ends up being he needs to be given a full pardon.

That being said, the thing with Snowden is something of a different animal. The similarities pretty much end with the fact that both released to the media files that had previously been secret. Manning's revelation showed US Army pilots targeting a wounded journalist where Snowden revealed mass federal and corporate invasion of the privacy of American citizens. Manning is a private in the Army and had a military trial before a judge and without a jury, which, it should be noted, he chose. Snowden is a civilian and not subject to a military trial, where I personally think he would have a decent shot at being found not guilty. Manning found something (several somethings, actually) during the normal course of his job, decided that it was wrong, and came out with the information. Snowden went after a job at a company that was a private contractor for the National Security Agency (and that in itself is a whole other bag full of f**ked up), taking a pay cut for the express purpose of leaking NSA documents.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is, being a whistleblower and being an a**hole are not mutually exclusive. I'm glad that the information about PRISM and the other surveillance programs came out, I think that we needed to know, but Snowden's attitude and his...I don't know what to call it, but it just annoys me to no end.

I personally agree with Jimmy Carter's sentiments on the matter: "He's obviously violated the laws of America, for which he's responsible, but I think the invasion of human rights and American privacy has gone too far ... I think that the secrecy that has been surrounding this invasion of privacy has been excessive, so I think that the bringing of it to the public notice has probably been, in the long term, beneficial."

[Ardreas]

And now the government is using Mafia tactics to bully the press into stopping reporting the leaks. This proves more than ever that Snowden's actions were necessary whistle-blowing. His attitude be damned, the government is way out of line and must be called to account for its abuses.

arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/08/partner-of-the-guardians-nsa-leaks-reporter-is-detained-for-9-hours-at-airport/

[Adaloupe]

Honestly, I think he was doing the right thing. Countries need these kinds of people.

I should also add that there is a protection program for people like him.

[Dolantown]

Its sad that the media paints such a negative image of this brave, inspirational hero. He gave up his freedom and a life of luxury to reveal what the NSA has been doing. The maintream media are nothing but lapdogs for the government, there needs to be more real journalism in america that's why I support independent media.

[Mal]

OK... The definition of traitor under the Statute is very narrow so we can rule that out. As to whether he's a Whistleblower, that term in the context of government employee would indicate that he went through proper channels to report fraud, waste, or abuse. There is a Whistleblower protection statute that would have made him immune if he had 1) reported something illegal or unauthorized or 2) reported to the NSA Inspector General actual fraud, waste, or abuse.

He likely will be convicted of espionage because regardless of his motivations, and irrespective of whether there was actual misconduct on the part of the NSA, he handed over classified materials to an unauthorized individual. That's the bottom line on all of this.

Look, I WORK for the U.S. Government and there are well defined rules of conduct, as well as procedures one should follow if one believes he or see is witnessing improper conduct on the part of superiors.

We have oversight committees in both houses of Congress that are set up to ensure that the Intelligence Community stays within the specified guidelines set out in the statutes that authorize them. We also have hundreds of processes to ensure that NSA, CIA, and other groups behave themselves.

Is our system perfect? Nope. But it's a far cry from places like n. Korea where T.V. sets are sold with preset stations that only receive state authorized programming. Or Cuba where owning a computer and accessing the internet used to be illegal. I could go on, but you get the point.

[Wailfolk]

Aug 23, 2013 21:24:44 GMT -5 Adaloupe said:

Honestly, I think he was doing the right thing. Countries need these kinds of people.

I should also add that there is a protection program for people like him.

I agree with this.

[Paisaje Rico]

I sympathize with Snowden way more than Manning- the info brought to light is much more significant.

I think that Snowden did a public service- just look at the government response to the allegations. We needed to know our rights were being violated, and it has transformed itself into a truly divisive social issue. In short, edward Snowden is Morpheus.

[Deleted]

Hero and Patriot.

[Invictus]

I'd like to think that Snowden is truly a whistleblower with the best intentions in mind for the American people. What bothers me, however, is that he really isn't leaking any important info that US citizens deserve to know, and I wonder why? It's the same with Glenn Greenwald and Wikileaks; the info they give out is seemingly unsubstantial or at least partly known. Assuming that the files Snowden and co. have are truly revolutionary, then why aren't they being leaked? I'm sure Snowden is already being followed and monitored in Russia with his life endangered, so what's keeping him from releasing the rest of the files?

[Ardreas]

Aug 19, 2014 23:34:08 GMT -5 Invictus said:

I'd like to think that Snowden is truly a whistleblower with the best intentions in mind for the American people. What bothers me, however, is that he really isn't leaking any important info that US citizens deserve to know, and I wonder why? ...

Uh, you don't think we deserve to know that our government is spying on our electronic communications and following us around the internet and wire tapping our phone calls? I'd call that pretty need-to-know information! The government way overstepped its bounds on that one, and they never would have even admitted it if their hand wasn't forced by this revelation. In fact, even after the leaks they were still trying to cover it up for months until there was nothing left to hide behind.

[Invictus]

Aug 20, 2014 18:56:23 GMT -5 Ardreas said:

Aug 19, 2014 23:34:08 GMT -5 Invictus said:

I'd like to think that Snowden is truly a whistleblower with the best intentions in mind for the American people. What bothers me, however, is that he really isn't leaking any important info that US citizens deserve to know, and I wonder why? ...

Uh, you don't think we deserve to know that our government is spying on our electronic communications and following us around the internet and wire tapping our phone calls? I'd call that pretty need-to-know information! The government way overstepped its bounds on that one, and they never would have even admitted it if their hand wasn't forced by this revelation. In fact, even after the leaks they were still trying to cover it up for months until there was nothing left to hide behind.

I think you misunderstood me, or maybe I maybe my wording was unclear. I absolutely believe that the American people deserve to know that they are being spied on without their knowledge by an overreaching government. My concern is that he isn't telling us MORE than that. Surely he has much more information from the files he made off with, and some of that is info most people deserve to know.

[Ardreas]

Aug 20, 2014 20:08:03 GMT -5 Invictus said:

I think you misunderstood me, or maybe I maybe my wording was unclear. I absolutely believe that the American people deserve to know that they are being spied on without their knowledge by an overreaching government. My concern is that he isn't telling us MORE than that. Surely he has much more information from the files he made off with, and some of that is info most people deserve to know.

Ah, agreed. Except that Mr. Snowden turned in all of his information to the Guardian when the leaks first took place and before he even flew to Russia. It has been up to the newspaper to decide what specific leaks to publish and when. They have the entire cache of documents though. He is not holding anything anymore. This is why stories about new "Snowden leaks" are continuing to appear in the news even now. Because the newspaper is releasing them a little at a time, as they have time to read through everything and decide what is relevant. So if there is a complaint about more information not coming out, it should be directed at the newspaper for their decisions on when and how much to publish.

[Invictus]

I see. I didn't know that the Guardian had all of the information. Let's just hope that Greenwald doesn't get bought out or threatened into submission.

[Ardreas]

Yeah, he was concerned that the Russians might try to get the documents from him if he held onto them. So he decided to give it all to the newspaper before making his flight. It's been in their hands ever since. At least that's how the story goes on the BBC world service.

[fongtopia]

I believe to a point it is good to know what our government is up to. It's our tax money and our elected officials. We elect based off of who we believe is better. Now if I chose someone because of how they want to run this country. I would prefer more information on how they are doing it. Now i'd personally rather see our in-house only. Other countries, no. There's a reason for the term espionage. I doubt only the US spies.

[Maguai]

I was hesitant to post here because this thread, and topic, are so old. However, I used to work for the NSA, and without reservation I have to say that Snowden is a traitor. There are always a number of actions taken by any intelligence agency that cross into that "Gray area" of what's right and wrong. I can say truthfully that every single day we worked to make sure We didn't infringe on US citizens rights, and the processes for getting access to your emails or phone records is exhausting. It only happens when necessary and requires several different warrants. What Snowden did put HUNDREDS of lives at risk and destroyed years of carefully executed surveillance work. There was no "good" outcome to his revelations, just millions of dollars wasted, and dozens of rescue operations executed. Your freedom isn't free, or cheap, and his actions set us back years. I'm all about personal rights and freedoms, and I can say with all honesty that the government doesn't tread on yours lightly, or at all if they can be spared.

[Hahiha / USSR]

May 10, 2015 23:56:13 GMT -5 Maguai said:

I was hesitant to post here because this thread, and topic, are so old. However, I used to work for the NSA, and without reservation I have to say that Snowden is a traitor. There are always a number of actions taken by any intelligence agency that cross into that "Gray area" of what's right and wrong. I can say truthfully that every single day we worked to make sure We didn't infringe on US citizens rights, and the processes for getting access to your emails or phone records is exhausting. It only happens when necessary and requires several different warrants. What Snowden did put HUNDREDS of lives at risk and destroyed years of carefully executed surveillance work. There was no "good" outcome to his revelations, just millions of dollars wasted, and dozens of rescue operations executed. Your freedom isn't free, or cheap, and his actions set us back years. I'm all about personal rights and freedoms, and I can say with all honesty that the government doesn't tread on yours lightly, or at all if they can be spared.

What can I do to stop this? Aside from actually reading Apple's terms of services agreement.

[Maguai]

Don't be a criminal? The process for getting your personal records requires a warrant, which in turn requires intense justification. Most of the time warrants for that data get denied, and it's only "easy" to acquire them if there's known terrorist activity.

[Louisistan]

May 10, 2015 23:56:13 GMT -5 Maguai said:

 I can say truthfully that every single day we worked to make sure We didn't infringe on US citizens rights,

How reassuring to me seeing as I'm a ... oh wait... I'm a citizen of a country you consider an ally, yet you found it necessary to monitor our entire internet communications! Are you f**king kidding me?! It's commendable that the NSA makes sure to not infringe upon U.S. Citizen's rights. Now if we could just get them to not infringe on the rights of allied citizens! 

And don't get me started on those asinine morons at the Bundesnachrichtendienst who found it way more important to shove intelligence on German citizens towards the NSA than stop to think about whether what they did was even legal. And to top it all off, it was revealed last week that they did in fact commit industrial espionage for the NSA. Over here in Europe, we honestly don't give a shit what measures you take to ensure U.S. citizen's rights. The NSA has repeatedly and consistently violated OUR rights. And how the hell does the NSA justify committing industrial espionage in Europe?!



I need a coffee....


Pleas note, I did not mean to attack you personally, Maguai, but this whole thing pisses me off to no end and it's no help that no one in the U.S. seems to give a shit about your allies. Why the hell are we even in an alliance if you treat us like the enemy?

[Maguai]

May 12, 2015 5:39:08 GMT -5 Louisistan said:

May 10, 2015 23:56:13 GMT -5 Maguai said:

 I can say truthfully that every single day we worked to make sure We didn't infringe on US citizens rights,

How reassuring to me seeing as I'm a ... oh wait... I'm a citizen of a country you consider an ally, yet you found it necessary to monitor our entire internet communications! Are you f**k**g kidding me?! It's commendable that the NSA makes sure to not infringe upon U.S. Citizen's rights. Now if we could just get them to not infringe on the rights of allied citizens! 

And don't get me started on those asinine morons at the Bundesnachrichtendienst who found it way more important to shove intelligence on German citizens towards the NSA than stop to think about whether what they did was even legal. And to top it all off, it was revealed last week that they did in fact commit industrial espionage for the NSA. Over here in Europe, we honestly don't give a shit what measures you take to ensure U.S. citizen's rights. The NSA has repeatedly and consistently violated OUR rights. And how the hell does the NSA justify committing industrial espionage in Europe?!



I need a coffee....


Pleas note, I did not mean to attack you personally, Maguai, but this whole thing pisses me off to no end and it's no help that no one in the U.S. seems to give a shit about your allies. Why the hell are we even in an alliance if you treat us like the enemy?

I didn't feel like you were being hostile at all. I have trouble articulating how I feel about intelligence surveillance. On one hand I feel that US citizens, and to a lesser extent our allies, don't truly understand what it is that the intelligence community does or the strict regulations and processes we have to protect their rights. For example, we have clear cut policy that we are required to quote (or at least I was, in Korea) that prevents us from collecting on allies and nations that are hosting us.

On the other hand, no one should ever just roll over and accept even the smallest infringement on their rights. The reason that all these laws, regulations, and policies exist in the first place is because of the MASSIVE rights violations the IC committed in the 60s and 70s.

And violations absolutely still happen, I just like to think (and my experience bears this out), most violations are accidents and the unintentionally gathered data is destroyed. Every once in a while some idiot tries to spy on his girlfriend, or an analyst oversteps their authority, but those actions aren't sanctioned and criminal charges are filed against those people. We didn't mess around with the rules because it would ruin our lives. Only the stupid or the desperate tried, and there's no leniency for that.

In the case of Snowden, I don't oppose his intentions, but his actions were deplorable. It is very likely that people died because of him, and that is unacceptable. So, traitor.

[Bolt]

Edward Snowden is a traitor, who should be executed for treason.