A response to the so-called coalition of independa

[Alfonia]

This is meant as a partial response to a post which I found to be rather offensive, and not in the spirit of the region I love so much.


"The COALITION believes in you, the citizen, the life-blood of our region is its citizens. We believe that YOU know what you want, and need – and that are more than willing to tell someone, if they would only ask. We believe that the source of our prosperity is centered on YOUR ideas. You are the focus, not prestige or party power. "


I doubt anyone is in it for prestige or party power. The fact is that the UPP is running for most positions because we have been able to get sufficiently organized; even to a level, I dare to say, that no one has succeeded to reach before when it comes to regional politics. This proves we are cunning and able, however. If you do not wish for capable politicians I highly suggest you don't vote for us.

I am slightly offended by the implications I feel you make that our candidates are in it for party power or prestige alone. I am not running for any position, even though I have been here for longer than everyone that has so far posted in this thread. Why? Because I feel my time isn't enough. And while I recognize I maybe could get elected, someone with more time could serve our region better. I chose not to comment any further implications that our members are just in it for the glory, it is that thoughtless and silly.


"THE COALITION WANTS RESPONSIBLE CHANGE – not change for change’s sake. Research and planning are vital to all successful programs. As a region, we must first strengthen ourselves, clarify our vision and then actively promote our ideas."


If I may risk to be a bit offensive... I feel that times like these, when our population has been dropping to half of what it used to be is not a good time to be stubborn and go for the famous "it ain't broke and we ain't gonna fix it"-model. I guess it's up for the citizens of our region to decide if I am right or not.

I have yet to see a list of improvements you seek to make in our region, I am looking forward to seeing it. until you prove you are not going to go for the "it ain't broke"-model, and until you put forward some ideas that really sound like they could make a difference, I can't really see a reason why I should vote for you.


"Every candidate should be judged on their individual merits, not by other members of their party. The coalition supports the idea that meaningful debate is fostered by many points of view. A monopoly of people sharing the same idea may not be best for the region."


I can not see how anyone would be judged on anything but their individual merits, as we have a system in which you vote for a person, not a party. if you're thinking about me and Sinn declaring we have full confidence in our members that are running, it's not worse than Grub publicly endorsing whoever he deems to be the fittest. We know everyone in our party is capable, if someone wasn't capable, we'd find a more suitable candidate and let them run for us instead I think... again we're not interested in promoting bad politicians just so we can cover ourselves in glory

Multiple opinions are fine, and that's why the UPP in the long term seeks to create a more open parliament, perhaps with even more members than the senate.



It is a positive thing that we are moving towards a future, in which more people are politically involved and active. That day is not here yet however, and until that day comes; there is really one party that stands above the others when it comes to organization, experience, and innovation, the party that does not have to make thoughtless accusations because it can't make a single, important point - and that party is the UPP.


/ Alfonia

the UPP - your servants, call and we listen.


Politics, not Politricks!


Long live the 10000 Islands!

[Sinn Féin's Ireland]

I second this.
-------------------------------
Sinn.

[Skwerrel]

Speaking as an independent:
Our announcement was in the same spirit as the UPP's announcement. We simply refuted many of the implications there were made about the UPP's opponents.

Anyone who thinks that I am in tune with with the so called "it ain't broke'-model" would be mistaken. Positioning to try to take the proverbial high ground will not work.

Talk about politricks, trying to feign rage to stir up controversy in the election. This response seemed angry. There is no need for offense, just view it as a wonderful oppurtunity to clarify your positions. Our announcement was civil and did not mention the UPP at all.

I personally think that all the people running for the senate are great people.

[Alfonia]

skwerrel said:

I personally think that all the people running for the senate are great people.

that was not the impression you gave me with the "some are in it just for the glory" implications...

You started to slander and accuse our party of things that are simply not true. I think a little anger (within the borders of civilized behaviour, naturally) is justified.

[Skwerrel]

You were accused of nothing. We simply stated our position on the topic, that WE did not have that in mind. We said nothing about the UPP.

[Sinn Féin's Ireland]

Indeed. I think implications were made even if an explicit mention was left out.
No one here is trying to stir controversy. Controversy helps no one, and if anything serves only to disillusion voters.
Lets give off the right impression shall we?
Please, I dont like the angry Sinn.

I also think that we are all good people here, and that anything that can make us attack each other must either be a bad thing, or something so very important that we become impassioned by it. I believe the latter to be the case, so i would ask everyone party to this dialogue to consider their position before making posts that could be damaging.

While we're at it, lets leave the proverbial high-horse. Everyone knows it offers but a bumpy ride.

Sinn.

[Alfonia]

skwerrel said:

You were accused of nothing. We simply stated our position on the topic, that WE did not have that in mind. We said nothing about the UPP.

If you weren't talking about the UPP, you were obviously talking about yourselves as the UPP and your coalition are the olny participants in this election? I don't care if you didn't name us directly, I think I am pretty sure what you meant and were implying and that's what angered me.

Let's leave all this behind now and focus on a clean election?

[Estayland]

alfonia said:

Let's leave all this behind now and focus on a clean election?

Hm... sounds familiar...

[XFracture]

This is hilarious. If you wanted to see an agressive position, you should have read my first draft, which was a direct response to the irresponsible insinuations presented in the UPP statement. Since the UPP has sunk to this weak attempt at bringing a false sense of insult into the race, look for a response to the UPP statement very soon.


Our statement, is incredibly hopeful and positive. I find it interesting that the UPP would sink to mischaracterizing it as less.

[New Dracora]

Pardon? Weak attempt at insult by the UPP? I don't recall planning any of this do you Sinn? Why my God, I do believe Alf actually is insulted. Gee... I hope this isn't the sign of things to come if you ever get elected, I mean I certainly am not going to bring any grievances to you if all I'm going to be thought of as is "weak".



From my viewpoint (that's MY viewpoint, not UPP's - yes we are actually allowed to have an individual personalities, unlike the ACN and it's cronies I suppose) I read your little speech and had to contain my laughter. Not only because I felt you simply hijacked all our policy ideas and tried to make them you're own, but because you can't seem to spell "Announcement" correctly either. But I let it be, because in the end if all you are going to do is what I want done anyway then I don't really care.

I said to myself "Oh look. Political BS. No need to be a part of that. Nup, nup..."

You see I could've done what Alf did - deep down I was a 'little' annoyed - but I didn't want to bring attention to your idiocy. I'm not surprised that someone did in the end however, I mean a blind leper with less sense than a donkey could figure out what you were up to.

Then came Skwerrel's:

Talk about politricks, trying to feign rage to stir up controversy in the election. This response seemed angry. There is no need for offense, just view it as a wonderful oppurtunity to clarify your positions. Our announcement was civil and did not mention the UPP at all.

Justification. That annoyed me a little more. "My god they're still playing the game." I said to myself. The following cemented that opinion:

I personally think that all the people running for the senate are great people.

HA! Yeah right.

Then there was this:

You were accused of nothing. We simply stated our position on the topic, that WE did not have that in mind. We said nothing about the UPP.

and this:

Hm... sounds familiar...

"Now they're trying to make us look hypocritical by mirroring our responses when they leaked our first draft ads in the delegate race comparing activity levels between Estay and Glu. Either that, or they think we are complete and utter morons."

I'll say it again - a blind leper with less sense than a donkey could figure out what you were up to. Deaf and dumb too.

By now I was starting to get irritated now but nothing overly great or anything. Nothing much unusual for me. But then there was this little gem:

This is hilarious. If you wanted to see an agressive position, you should have read my first draft, which was a direct response to the irresponsible insinuations presented in the UPP statement. Since the UPP has sunk to this weak attempt at bringing a false sense of insult into the race, look for a response to the UPP statement very soon.


Our statement, is incredibly hopeful and positive. I find it interesting that the UPP would sink to mischaracterizing it as less.

And that bloody did it.

You guys just don't get it do you?

I'm not here to win a bloody race, I want to help this place get back on it's feet not play party politics. Before all this I felt that no matter who won in any of the races things were going to get done since all seemed motivated to do a good job.

But after all this I can see clearly through you now.

You guys just want to WIN. If anyone is in it for the glory it's you peeps. You guys could see how well we were promoting ourselves so you just had to drag us about in the mud a bit didn't you? Make us look a bit dirty and stink a bit so you'll all look like sweet angels and smell like roses huh? Utterly dispicable.

How could you try to shove our faces in the dirt? I mean Sinn has even complimented you mongrels and yet you do this! Well I know now what I must do. None of you deserve to be in the senate as far as I'm concerned - I am deeply disappointed in you all.

I expected better from fellow XKI'ers.

[XFracture]

So you do not see the hypocrisy in your statements when trying to align them with the UPP first repsonse to this ad?

Our ad is incredibly optimistic and hopeful. Your party has brought this campaign to the gutter.

If you question our motives, you ought to begin with the motives of those who turned this into a mudslinging. We took great offense to your party statement. And, instead of vehementing at you, as was our first reaction, we simply posted our own, positive and hopeful ad, only for it to be drug threw the mud inappropriately.

And, still, you continue to misalign our character and intentions.

We don't want to win, we want to make a difference, and we want a fair chance at it before getting cutoff at the knees by your party's politics.

EVERY post by your part in this thread has been insulting and impugning. That is in great contrast to how we have responsed to your vehemence.

Nothing in our post was a personal insult anyone. It was a simple statement of our position on the election. Your party chose to make this a party issue as it twisted our words.

I actually considered pulling out of this race to prove that I am not in it "just to win". But, then, the whole point of the mudslinging would have done its job. With this "reaction" from your party, I am now more convinced than ever that we need more diversity in the senate than ever.

[Skwerrel]

We state our position, not a response to UPP's ad, but how we feel and you take offense.
We try to clarify when UPP posted a response and you take offense.
We are offended at UPP's response and you take offense.
We did not try to mudsling and you take offense.
I have tried to remain level headed and not attack, and you take offense.
I am puzzled. The only thing that I can think of is to reiterate the respect I have for every candidate. I do not wish, nor have I ever wished, to insight anger from anyone in this race.

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

I haven't read this whole thread, but let's all try to get along.

[Sinn Féin's Ireland]

Please. I'm not even going to read all of that. It needs to stop.

[New Dracora]

I'm not going to say anymore, because if I do heads are going to roll. I'm so pissed off with this BS.

[New Dracora]

Understand I don't give two sh.ts about your precious statement. It's the accusations that f*ck me off.

Apologise to Alf and the UPP in general and I might think better of you again.

[Bratesbourgh]

What?

UPP being accused and smeared? Shocking, just shocking, I've never heard of such things where a party is insulted. Oh no... Wait, it is done all the time.
A party being accused of power hungry? You get upset over insults? Take it as a compliment that people respect you, and feel you are a threat. I personally will vote against all UPP nominees as their platform makes me gag.

Cheers everyone!

[Sinn Féin's Ireland]

Ok, fair enough, what parts of the platform make you gag? And why?

[Alfonia]

Warning... post full of personal opinions ahead (yes we do have personal opinions in the UPP, if that's news to you...)!

xfracture said:

Our ad is incredibly optimistic and hopeful. Your party has brought this campaign to the gutter.

Ehm no. first you say "unlike others we're not in it for party power" while there is only one party except for your own, and interestingly enough you face that party's representatives in each election. Then you say that is not an accusation.

It is an accusation, even though you didn't name the other party's name. I get upset because i feel we may be moving towards a harsher political climate. So I post my feelings here, then you try to blame me for getting annoyed. I'd rather blame the speaker of lies, than the person who reacts to them when he hears them.

xfracture said:

If you question our motives, you ought to begin with the motives of those who turned this into a mudslinging. We took great offense to your party statement. And, instead of vehementing at you, as was our first reaction, we simply posted our own, positive and hopeful ad, only for it to be drug threw the mud inappropriately.

I must have missed something... Your "joint announcement" was posted before my reply to it, as one would have expected. Everyone can see that, so I fail to see your point here.

xfracture said:

And, still, you continue to misalign our character and intentions.

Why would we need to? You seem to be doing a great job when it comes to dragging yourselves through the mud. I stand by my first impression and I am completely honest when I say my personal opinion (which we have the freedom to have and enjoy in the UPP, like in any democratic organization) is that your announcement was partially a load of sh*te, and partially illusions without any ideas backing them.

xfracture said:

We don't want to win, we want to make a difference, and we want a fair chance at it before getting cutoff at the knees by your party's politics.

Again, we want to change the system. If you feel the current system may allow for one party to be in absolute control, then you should try to change it as well! You don't however, you paniced and decided to be a part of such a system while you still have the oppurtunity. You're not going to be cut off at the knees, I fear however that we will be if you win after seeing this post.

By the way; here's a slogan for you;

The coalition: Conservatives who want to make a difference!

(I guess slow "responsible" change is the result of you standing there thinking of what to do next, as i still question if you have a real agenda with good ideas...)

xfracture said:

EVERY post by your part in this thread has been insulting and impugning. That is in great contrast to how we have responsed to your vehemence.

Since when is it insulting to get insulted when faced with lies and accusations regarding your character?

xfracture said:

Nothing in our post was a personal insult anyone. It was a simple statement of our position on the election. Your party chose to make this a party issue as it twisted our words.

Really? I took it as an insult; and instead of explaining that it wasn't meant as one to me, you fired off multiple insults in my party's direction. (still if you'd like to point out in a civilized manner what I misinterpreted, I suppose we could all get along...)

xfracture said:

I actually considered pulling out of this race to prove that I am not in it "just to win"...

I wouldn't stop you...





I am still in shock however... over the thing that first disturbed me... accusations that someone might even consider running for senate for "party power" or "glory". I do think an apology for such a comment would be appropriate too.



i edited once, changing an "8" to a "("

[XFracture]

alfonia said:

first you say "unlike others we're not in it for party power"

See, there is the problem. You are adding to what we are actually saying.

We never said "unlike others".

We stated OUR position apart from anyone else's. It is not our fault that you have read INTO what we said something that we did not. You assumed ill-intent where there is none.

For my part, I am going to honor Grub's wishes, so pointing out your misquote is the last that will be said on the matter. This was a fun election until your post, Alf.

[Alfonia]

I see you intend to go out with an insult.

I don't think I have anything more to say here.

[Fleeb]

admin said:

I haven't read this whole thread, but let's all try to get along.

Everyone is entitled to their feelings and opinions without question or cross-x, but I have to agree with Grub that we all can probably do a little better than this.

I am the first to admit that new ideas, measures, policies and people are needed for this region, which has experienced (through most of my Delegacy) a much too steep loss of members and energy.

But you don't get any of that by squabbling -- you get it by really offering fresh ideas and by demonstrating you can work, work, work to bring in new folks.

Most of all, the region grows by showing it is friendlier, funnier and more active than anywhere else. I really hate platitudes, but my old mama had it right (even if she did have to say it 40 ka-gillion times when I was growing up) that "The one who smiles the most wins..."

Let that be us.