New leadership for the 10K Islands! (Sen 11/05)

[Elgarve]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
My name is Elgarve and I am running for Senate. I believe we can help make our region the BEST nation in Nationstates! Now before I just make empty promises take a look at my platform as candidate of the UPP!

1) keep up immigration work and enlarge immigration department.
2) continue with the new Taco economic system. This system is really cool and with the help of Sinn as Regional reserve Chairman we can expand its features.
3) Promote openness in the Co9 and in government in general.
and finally:
4) Increase government job positions. This will help to promote national involvement in the government.

If you have any specific questions just PM me and I'll get back to you ASAP!

[Crackenback]

Just a couple of things:

1) In regards to more openness in the Co9, I ask you how can the Co9 be more open? I can safely assure you that there are no secrets in the Co9. Yes, we have discussions behind the scenes that the general public doesn't know about, but in the same breath, there are announcements posted about the results of said discussions. The Co9 is not a secret society, the Co9 is extremely open with the public, and always will be

2) In regards to more government positions, what's wrong with the way things are at the moment? How many more government departments can we create without the process being choked by Beauracracy and "Red Tape"?
I dont think there is a problem with the system. There are plenty of ways for people to get involved in the region, from Immigration, to the Buddy System. Please be more specific with your ideas.

If you have specific ideas, feel free to bring them before the Senate through the forums

[Estayland]

I would also like to respond to the points brought up.

1. There are many posts that ask for volunteers to join immigration. All you have to do is ask. I believe the Dept currently has the most volunteers it's ever had, yet there's always room for more.

2. The economic system is brand new, so of course the Taco economy will continue unless there's some sort of major disaster. There may be kinks in the system down the road, but it shouldn't be anything too drastic.

3. As with any government, there are things that its citizens should not and will not know about. With us, I believe these things are kept to a minimum. We post a summary of major discussions every month in our Senate Report.

4. Back to #1 - if you want to volunteer for a government position, just ask! There's the Immigration Department, Buddy System, Education Department, etc. Unless you're completely untrustworthy, you're welcome to join at any time.

Back to what Crackenback said... if you have any ideas, let us know. We're always open to them, and we will discuss them. To use a cliche - "The squeeky wheel gets the grease." We can only make changes if we're told that something isn't right.

[Sinn Féin's Ireland]

crackenback said:

In regards to more openness in the Co9, I ask you how can the Co9 be more open? I can safely assure you that there are no secrets in the Co9. Yes, we have discussions behind the scenes that the general public doesn't know about, but in the same breath, there are announcements posted about the results of said discussions. The Co9 is not a secret society, the Co9 is extremely open with the public, and always will be

I would like to Support my colleague Elgarve at this point. It is fair to say i have had several ideas which i have put before the Co9 regarding the economic system. The feasibility and application of these ideas is such that i became regional reserve chairman.
Whilst i agree the council of Nine is by no stretch a secretive organisation, I feel inhibited in my job and indeed when making proposals for the progression of the economy, due to the fact i am unable to take part in these discussions. I can submit, and view the verdict, but take no part in deliberations whatsoever. This certianly cannot be productive, and so in this respect, the Co9 needs to be more open. Not perhaps to the general public, but to officials that the content is relevant to. Even if just certain threads within its section.

It is the firm belief of the UPP and our candidate that the Taco economic system is a great incentive, and the dept. Immigration can be enlarged using this to its full potential. This leads onto Elgarve's second point.

The platform with which our Candidate runs is based solidly in the manifesto policies of the UPP. These can be read at any time, if you feel elaboration is needed. They are more developed notions.

I fully support Elgarve in his bid for senator, and publicly declare it so.

[Alfonia]

I am glad no one has protested against points 1) and 2)...

I see point three is the point that seems to be drawing the most attention.

"3. As with any government, there are things that its citizens should not and will not know about. With us, I believe these things are kept to a minimum. We post a summary of major discussions every month in our Senate Report."

Yes but in most governments (the democratic ones anyways) information usually becomes public after a while. Making old threads and discussions viewable by the public wouldn't be impossible right? I'm not saying you should show the top secret stuff to the public, but i think you could very well show the rest. If the people don't know how you act in discussions within the Co9 and how you are in general as a politician, how are they going to know if you are worthy of re-election? And exactly how does "re-elect me and i'll continue the good work" sound if you do not know what "the good work" is Crackenback? It's easy for us to tell if the Co9 has done a good job as a group, but it's not easy for us to see who is a good senator and who could be replaced by someone better especially if they, unlike you, have only been a senator for one term.

Crackenback, of course the Co9 isn't a secret society. But it is not "extremely open".


I stand behind Elgarve, he will make a fine senator.

[Elgarve]

I believe that taking some documents from the Co9 archives would help the wider 10KI world understand the inner workings of the Council. I, for example, have NO idea how a resolution is put foreward, if there is a certain time for discussion, etc. These docs would also help enrich are history, especially with the Empire of Power annexation day just past!

(I've got to go but I will write more a little later!)
P.S. I really appreciate your response on this! It will go a long way in revitalizing the gov. Now I'd like to here from regular voters!

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

For resolutions, what usually happens is that we first introduce a discussion thread and work out any kinks. After a while and after the differences or questions have been addressed, a poll is put up and we vote.

[Jaymen]

In regards to the Imm. department, How do you feel that you can enlarge it? Right now we have plenty of threads announcing to join it. Like Estayland said, just ask Grub with any ?'s.

[Gluuland]

The imm. dept. is very easy to enlarge, but difficult to get productive.... The fact is, people have RL's and just dont have the time sometimes..... What we need is a group of dedicated recruiters who will recruit over 7 hours a week.... If you feel like you are a suitable person for this position, im sure we would lover to have you in Imm. Joining the Imm. Dept. will give you just as much say if not more in how it is run...

[Gluuland]

1. Have you ever been in Imm.? (see above post for thoughts on "enlargening" it)
2. What "features" do you propose? I think we covered the basics... Shop, Lottery, Stock... *counts on fingers*
3. I think i argued in the the other thread about "openness," but ill say this... The senate (in this regard) is like a father. He tells his son what he needs to know to understand, but not too much....
This is often for his own good....
4. I said this before: "Ask and you shall receive"

[Jesioneka]

It probably isn't my place to comment, but let me say this. Before I was elected to the Senate, I guess I had the same idea that some of you have -- of it not being extremely open. Now that I'm finishing up my second month, I can tell you that really almost everything that we discuss is released to the public, via the Senate report. Other things we openly ask for ideas on from the public, like the taco system.

Furthermore, we tend to work by consensus. I don't think anybody really pushes from one consistent political position. It's more like a group of 9 people working together to lead the region, maintain it, improve it, and implement new ideas. The decision-making process is pretty equal to all, and compromise rules the day.

I understand the concern about not being able to see if Senator X is doing a good job or not, but really as it is, everyone contributes on what they know best. Everyone comments, and comments usually aren't "controversial" in that it would make a citizen not want to vote for a Senator. Rather, comments are more geared toward improving ideas and making them better -- more constructive than partisan. I think whether Grub endorses a candidate or not says the most, since he's in a good position to evaluate our performances.

Anyway, this looks like a good contest and I'm glad the dialogue has opened on these issues. Hopefully it will help citizens understand the Co9 a little more. You can always approach one of the Senators if you have questions -- we represent you after all.

Ok, now I'll leave the debating to the candidates. Just wanted to share my insight as something of a newcomer to the Senate since it might help people decide and clear up some misconceptions.

[Alfonia]

jesioneka said:

...Everyone comments, and comments usually aren't "controversial" in that it would make a citizen not want to vote for a Senator...

Sounds good but really it should be up to the citizens to decide what is controversial and not. At least i think so, the citizens are the ones that vote after all.

[Gluuland]

Ummm, since when does something have to be "desided" controversial? If you want to find a controversy, start disagreeing.....

[Sinn Féin's Ireland]

True. Regarding how the senate works, i think it is important to have a bit of struggle within it. If everyone is entirely complacent and gets along and just agrees with each other where is the representative democracy with which each senator is elected? If he or she does what they feel is neccessary to maintain the cabinet status quo then often they arent accountable to their constituents. If there is no true representation of opinion on the behalf of the electorate, there is no accountability, and it is not true democracy. Ergo, the whole system is a farce. Work as a team yes, but argument is vital in maintaining an efficient and progressive government. How else can it be so?

About immigration, i think the most cynical answer in getting people involved is in this case the most accurate. Play to their greed. A salary will appear very nice to many nations, with the potential for wage increases and bonuses based on performance evaluations. Its all about Tacos. Incentive and money are synonymous, you still need lots of nations, some like you said, to do 7+ a week, but many others to do between 2-4, just to keep the levels from dropping. A UPP senator would ensure such a reform would be deliberated and hopefully take place for the good of the region.

[Gluuland]

We do argue, as in a resolution is not passed until everyone, or the majority is pleased. Everyone stands by their platform, and if something goes against it, then they stand up for their opinion...

As i have said, Immigration is up to those who work in the imm. dept. and the imm. minister.... Thats why the imm. minister is part of the Co9..... Pay is one idea, but i like Otupia's new weekly goal population.... It has worked nicely in other governmental depatments, and i have high hopes everyone will rise to the occasion and help out to meet that goal....

[Jaymen]

It's good to see all this debating goin on. Makes for a good election :-)

[Sinn Féin's Ireland]

js1490 said:

but i like Otupia's new weekly goal population....

Just to make a point here *and standing up for my platform as you put it* that was my idea. No one will argue with you there if you ask them.

On a different issue, not wanting to be fenickity about this, but you said they stand up for 'their opinion'. Is not the whole purpose of elections, and senators to represent the wishes of the people who voted them into power. Not to serve only their own opinions.
I'm sure this cynical slant doesnt reflect the senate in its current form, but i think that as an entity, it is far from perfect. If i were a regular voter i would like to see in the senate reports which senator took which standpoint on whatever issue. I could then take this into account when the next election is.
It would be quite important if say the senator you elected has been opposing the legislature for your right to earn a wage, and you are none the wiser because this is all left behind closed doors?

[Jaymen]

Sinn's second point does make sense and it'd make the elections alot more interesting. Seeing what side senators take would make the deicision of who to vote for for a XKI citizen a lot more important.

[Gluuland]

The idea of a wage comes up, and everyone contributes to it.... If there is a down side, or it is not possible, we give out opinion, and it is noted. Frankly, i dont know what on earth you are talking about..... Crackenback and Estayland have served the 10000 Islands much longer than anyone else who is running for office, and therefore know much more about the regions history and traditions, as well as the opinion of the people. The only opinions i have ever seen expressed by the people is your opinion to listen to the people, if that makes sense.... How are we going to listen to the people (you, the UPP) when the only objective you have is to be elected into office....

The idea of showing what side each senator has taken sounds good, but its not necessary.... If a senator doesnt contribute he/she is likely to get bored and not run for re-election. Back to my "father" analogy.... A father doesnt tell his son more than he needs to know so that the son does not become confused. We could copy and paste the entire Co9 for you, but what does it matter if it all comes out anyways?
The senate report gives you a heading for everything we do, and we elaborate as needed....
Id love to take credit for my idea (which i may in due time) but its not as important as the result. My ideas come from other ideas which in turn spark more ideas.....

[Gluuland]

Just a moddish comment: just reminding people not to get to personal.... Some debate is nice and well, but its better to direct comments toward idea than people.... Im trying to do the same. If you personnaly object to a comment, do pm that person and respectfully ask them to change it.

Glu
Senator of the 10000 Islands
Dish throwing (general 10000 islands board) mod

[Estayland]

js1490 said:

Crackenback and Estayland have served the 10000 Islands much longer than anyone else who is running for office

Actually, Parth has been around much longer than I have.

[Sinn Féin's Ireland]

Indeed. Ok, I will say at this point that to a small degree i am being deliberately antagonistic for the sake of debate. Small issues these are, but i still believe in them. If anyone has any questions or comments to make to Elgarve as an individual, I suppose they can carry on being posted here, but if its about The UPP (His platform) then post in our thread in the political parties section.