US Election General Discussion

[Serconea]

This is a place for general discussion the US elections. Not just the Presidential, but Congressional and Gubernational ones too.

Please refrain from excessive Kerry or Bush bashing, excessive arguments about Iraq and general rudeness. Please just discuss the election, speeches, etc.

First question: Whose acceptance speech was better, Kerry's or Bush's?

[Bad Infinitum]

Am I the only one who things gubernatorial is a funny word?

[Re-Yupanqui]

LOL... is there anyone out there besides me who can't say that 30 times fast without laughing?

[Bad Infinitum]

I can't say it without laughing, and I can't say it thirty times.

Either if I try it'll be a huge disaster, or they'll cancel each other out. Only one way to find out!

[Boolari]

Please post the results! That should be a minute or two of entertainment in itself!

What'd everyone think of the Republican convention?

[Bad Infinitum]

I made it to 11 then couldn't stop giggling.

Republicans had a convention? From David Letterman's perspective, it was a disco party.

[Serconea]

Yes, it was a disco sort of. The Bush twins were... interesting.

[Henneth annun]

As far as acceptance speeches go, Bush won.

[Iyandan]

Not knowing precisly how American Elections go, I say this from a position of relative ignorance.

Listening to the BBC News this morning, it was reported that Bush has a 11pt lead over Kerry in the Polls. With only the live debates coming up that could really change things.

So, is an 11pt Lead unassailble. And how much of an effect do the live debates have (I know about the 1960 thing, with Nixon vs Kennedy, and the massive effect it had then, but im on about the present.)

And how much of an effect will Nader have. Could he really cost Kerry the election.

And yes, Gubernatorial is a funny word.

[Henneth annun]

Nader can tip the scales in favor of bush, but He need to take it all out in debates.

Goooobernational, ;D

[Sheynat]

I have a sneaking suspicion that Kerry's going to win, regardless of the 11 point lead (and the polls I've seen still seem to indicate a single digit lead, by the way). There's the "old wives' tales" reasons; Kerry is taller, has more royal blood, is generally seen as being better looking, the zero year curse (the only president elected in a zero year to survive his term was Reagan) and there's some other reasons, like the Cheney curse (no President to appoint Cheney to any position was ever re-elected, due to the fact that the man is basically grossly incompetent), the fact that no incumbent ever won an election this close. Also, a large number of conservative pundits have turned on Bush; if you watch CNN, Tucker Carlson flat-out called Bush a coward (his exact word, "coward") Bob Novak said he's too big a spender, and night after night, at least a while ago, Lou Dobbs was absolutely tearing into him on the outsourcing thing.
By the way, Iyandan, the 11 point lead is coming right off their convention. Both parties tend to get an artifical boost from all the propaganda spewed during the convention, which fades before the election. If this eleven point lead lingers, however, either Kerry is going to have to do very, very well in the debates or Bush is going to have to do very, very poorly. Considering how bad Bush is at speaking, it's not entirely infeasible that he'll trip over his own shoes and not be able to get back up.

[Serconea]

Bush isn't that bad at speaking.

Don't forgot the 'year 4' pattern- the incumbent in every year ending with 4 won in a landslide.

It's not over yet, but I think Bush is going to win. JK's just hasn't set the electorate on fire.

[bongomangoland]

What's Bush like in terms of internal affairs (i.e. improving America)? All we hear of him in the UK is generally bad.

Based on reports from the BBC i think Kerry looks the better candidate, but then he's not been backed by Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Kellopalopalis]

How's Bush on internal (domestic) affaiars? Well, he has just let the assault weapons ban expire. (He says he'll sign another ban, but he hasn't done a thing to help a ban pass and doesn't care that one isn't going to pass)

[Sheynat]

It's very, very close to expiring, and as much as I'd like to agree with Kel here, Bush couldn't have saved that ban if he'd demanded Congress renew it. For once, I don't blame Bush. Some of the blame must be laid squarely on Congress. First, the gun lobby has too many Senators in its pocket, and second, there's a legitimate constitutional complaint against that law. Let's get somebody more neutral to Bush in here; you're not getting a fair opinion from a liberal or conservative. And Serconea; from here in Ohio, it looks to me like John Kerry don't need to set the electorate on fire; if he gets elected, it's solely because he's not GWBush.

[Bonaduce Alander]

I agree with that one. If your not bush you will most likely win. Any one else here agree with me when I say that the Patriot Acts are unconstitutional?

[Down under there]

I quite agree. I did an extensive project on it last year. This government expansion based on exploiting fear is getting out of hand.

[mikalwane]

I think being "not-Bush" is a plus for a Democratic candidate, but I wish the Democrat wasn't John Kerry. This doesn't mean I won't vote for him, I just don't think he lights the fire under the electorate like a Democrat should if he wants to defeat a Republican incumbent.

Republicans benefit from voter apathy and incumbency. Statistics show that higher voter turnout helps Democrats much more than Republicans.

In modern U.S. politics, Democrats have shifted to the right to pick up moderate votes, while the Republicans have solidified their right-wing base and been more successful in getting their political "memes" out into the mainstream. An example is how the right-wing has spread the opinion that affermative action is a form of reverse discrimination. Or the idea that more guns equal less crime, dispite evidence to the contrary, especially in urban areas.

The Republicans have learned that the winning strategery for them is to keep their base satisfied and keep moderates either angry at apparent political corruption (ie creating voter apathy) or scaring enough of them to vote for the Republican with the belief that a vote for the Democrat is a vote for the Enemy.

I think Democrats need to present a real alternative to the Republicans if they want to win. The first step is a candidate that excites the voters and I just don't see Kerry as an exciting candidate. But then again, not being Bush is very attractive during this political season.

[Parthini]

I am curious. Why do the more liberal Islanders hate/dislike/disagree with Bush? I just want a basic think-through answer. And simple Bush-bashing/flaming is an unacceptable answer. And I don't want Micheal Moore's answer either.

GPP

[Sheynat]

Parthini:
As far as I'm concerned, the Patriot Act alone is enough to lose my vote. I do not agree with the concept of reduced liberty for greater safety. In fact, I oppose it more strongly than I oppose anything else. Second, if he'd followed through and chased Bin Laden down, I might actually have some respect for the guy, although I still wouldn't vote for him (Patriot Act), but he went after Afghanistan, and used that to segue into Iraq, claiming that Saddam and Osama, both of whom would pay good money for the other's head, were allied. And we never did get Osama.

[bongomangoland]

Sorry for my ignorance, but what exactly is the Patriot Act? (I live in Britain)

As for Bush, he seems to be surrounded by people who are intellectually superior to him, and cerntainly more politically astute. I for one would rather not have the most powerful man in the world having his strings pulled by someone else.

[Sheynat]

The Patriot Act is a law that basically hacked most of our rights to pieces. It expires in 2005, and there's no way in hell it's getting renewed. However, until then, Bush can deprive somebody of a pretty large number of his constituional rights simply by declaring him to be an enemy combatant, most notably, pretty much all his fourth and fifth amendment rights. You can be held indefinitely without charges and denied access to a lawyer, for two examples.