Recognising the obligations incumbent upon member states to refrain from the use of torture,
Affirming the importance of maintaining a strong stance against all applications of torture,
Seeking means to further eliminate the potential for international complicity in acts of torture,
Deeply concerned by the practice of 'extraordinary rendition', whereby persons are rendered to foreign jurisdictions for the express purpose of having torture conducted,
Believing extraordinary rendition to be a subversion of international law and a significant threat to international human rights,
Determined to prevent member states from any form of involvement in this practice,
1. Defines, for the purposes of this Convention, torture as any act of physical or psychological violence perpetrated against persons for the purposes of coercion, intimidation, punishment, interrogation or the obtaining of information or forced confession;
2. Prohibits member states from any involvement in the rendering of persons to foreign jurisdictions if there is probable cause to believe they would be subject to torture.
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Post by Bad Infinitum on Jan 12, 2007 22:20:15 GMT -5
estayland said:
1. Defines, for the purposes of this Convention, torture as any act of physical or psychological violence perpetrated against persons for the purposes of coercion, intimidation, punishment, interrogation or the obtaining of information or forced confession;
There are better ways to obtain information than physical torture, but psychological torture? That's what we like to call "interrogation." If there's no stress placed on the detainee, the interrogator has no leverage. With no leverage placed against him, the detainee has no reason whatsoever to give any answers.
"plz to tell us where teh bomb is mr terrorist" Yes. That will work wonderfully. Phsyical torture is generally a bad idea-eventually he'll tell you what you want to hear, regardless of whether or not it's true, just to make you stop. But like Enigmatic said, banning psychological torture means you're stuck asking him nicely.
Twould be a wonderful world if asking nicely would work, sadly tis not the case. Anyone want to tell me why I used "twould" and "tis" in that sentence, because I have no idea.
The thing is, when you torture someone, they'll say whatever you want to hear so they won't be tortured. So, either way you're kind of screwed. If you ask nicely they won't tell you...but if you torture them, chances are you won't get accurate information...or you'll be purposely misinformed which could lead to an ambush of your forces.
I am for this just because I believe in protecting human rights, and for the fact that torture really would not help solve anything. If you were being burned with cigarettes, having your family threatened, having toe/finger nails pulled out...what would you do? I know I would say whatever I had to, so I could at least stop being tortured...even if that meant I had to rot in a jail cell.
EDIT: I guess I didn't read into the psychological torture quite as much...so for me they would need to clearly define it...because I wouldn't have a problem using scare tactics against the individual...but if you made threats against his family in order to extract information, that might be a little different. So...I would like to have my vote changed to abstain...
Last Edit: Jan 13, 2007 1:49:42 GMT -5 by Coyotemen
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I agree, I would like this to be spelled out a little better before I could vote for it. I am against the use of torture, for moral and practical reasons, but I am not sure the wording of this was thought out sufficiently.
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Post by Sinn Féin's Ireland on Jan 15, 2007 13:16:21 GMT -5
Wording schmording! Torture is wrong. Rendition may be practised by the UK government amongst others, but that doesn't make it OK. It's as hypocritical as saying you're against capitol punishment, but in favour of the hanging of Saddam. (but that's another issue...)
down with rendition. Torture and any other kind of confession under duress is uncorroborated and should not hold up in court. once again the UK government is guilty of subversion of justice here too.
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If we want to progress as a modern society, we need to refrain, as much as possible from barbaric, primitive practices. Sometimes those interrogating become (to make a vast understatement) frustrated because those being questioned are not helping, and many people's lives may be in great danger. But if we neglect human rights, we are taking a step backwards, away from peaceful, objective thoughts and practices. Governments need to be more careful when pointing the finger of blame at certain persons. Remember the Brazilian man shot in the London tube, remember Guantanamo Bay Base...? Just because people are suspects, doesn't mean they are guilty, and should be treated like it. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? I'm not saying we should put the rights of criminals above all other people's, but we need to draw the line at needless violence. Some psychological pain should be accepted though. It's this type of disregard for our own laws that deeply anger the people who attack us. Perhaps we need to develop better lie detectors? We also clearly need better governments who don't just happilly upset half the world by doing whatever they feel like. (I am talking about the real world here, not a game)
I for one think the ones that say psychological torture equals interrogation are wrong. With cases that have been reported in mind; Making a muslim prisoner wipe his behind with the pages of a Koran IS wrong and barbaric, and equals psychological torture. Telling him the meal he just ate contains pig meat is torture as well. Waking him up in the middle of the night and yelling at him in order to get some information is not.
I think there's a fine line to be drawn and not crossed, and this resolution may lack directions for where that line should be drawn. however, that does not mean it is worthless. It does, for instance clearly prohibit physical torture and in that case there's no line to be drawn. Because of this, I am for this resolution.
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