Sex, Race And IQ: Off Limits?

[Anime Daisuki]

Do you think research based on race and gender differences, and how these affect IQ and our brains, should be discontinued?

From Newsweek article:

Granted, the study of racial and sex differences in intelligence has not exactly covered itself in glory. There was that unfortunate incident in the mid-20th century, when British psychologist Cyril Burt apparently made up data to "prove" that genes make blacks and the poor innately less intelligent than whites and the wealthy. Later studies reaching similar conclusions were based on statistics that would have done Mark Twain ("lies, damned lies …") proud. But does this sorry record warrant the scientific equivalent of the death penalty for such research? ... ... In a heated debate that began in the journal Nature and spread online, they are calling for an end to research on possible links between race, gender and intelligence. "Stupid science" and "evil science" are the more polite terms being hurled.

[Greek People Nation (GPN)]

It is all stupid. I like to laugh when people like that show their ignorance. Who cares why some are smarter than other. If everyone was the same, what is the point of life.

[Estayland]

Ignorance doesn't know race or sex. Wait, is that an oxymoron?

Just watch COPS. You'll see stupid whites, blacks, men, women, old and young. When you make up data, that's one thing. If you get scientifically-accurate data and make a report, then make a report. Don't manipulate it to say "Uh, blacks r dum. Whitey is smartical."

[Chronopolice]

If we go along with their argument, they won't stop there. They will eventually spread this odious idea to other fields of science. Cyril Burt's name is already tarnished beyond repair. That's a good enough punishment for me.

However, I always hold the view that the scientific facts gleaned from proper scientific research can deal a brutal blow to the current conventional thinking. Albert Einstein ring the bell?

There's nothing wrong with this field of research as long as it is done according to the proper standards of scientific method. The main question should be, "Are we prepared to face the music?".

[Anime Daisuki]

The argument highlighted above is basically between:

Group A) Scientists who argue that research should be for research's sake.
Group B) "Politically correct" advocates, by that I mean women rights group and racial rights group like the NAACP who argue that research should not dwell into differences between women and men, and also differences between races.

I agree with the former group. There are scientific values to be gained. For example, the body of research we have so far suggests that men and women ARE wired differently. We think differently and process knowledge differently and reason differently. The same could be said of research into intelligence between racial groups. There had been evidence to suggest that African Americans learn better with image-based teaching rather than word based teaching-- all these research have benefits to be gained.

But Group B is saying we should stop this to be politically correct. In some way, they have a valid point because research can also be abused.

[Chronopolice]

Apr 23, 2009 12:10:18 GMT -5 Anime Daisuki said:

The argument highlighted above is basically between:

Group A) Scientists who argue that research should be for research's sake.
Group B) "Politically correct" advocates, by that I mean women rights group and racial rights group like the NAACP who argue that research should not dwell into differences between women and men, and also differences between races.

I agree with the former group. There are scientific values to be gained. For example, the body of research we have so far suggests that men and women ARE wired differently. We think differently and process knowledge differently and reason differently. The same could be said of research into intelligence between racial groups. There had been evidence to suggest that African Americans learn better with image-based teaching rather than word based teaching-- all these research have benefits to be gained.

But Group B is saying we should stop this to be politically correct. In some way, they have a valid point because research can also be abused.

Whether we like it or not, different races have different attributes. Is it their fault? No, it is their adaptation to their unique environments.

If we allow scientific research to be used for petty ends, then we are all liable for allowing it.

[New Dracora]

For science! *cue thunder and lightning*

tbh I've heard of research dollar being spent on more retarded things, so 'meh'.

[rezzeland]

There were some flaws with the IQ test, and there still are. It was cultuarally biased, but not on purpose. The guys who made it thought, "Oh, this is common sense... Let's ask this." But it wasn't for all people. There has been a lot of progress with changing the tests for different people. I.E. If someone's first language is Spanish, then the vocabulary contains more spanish-oriented words. Things like pictures with a stroller missing a wheel asking, "What's missing in this picture?" have been rethought, because not all cultures use strollers.

So, no. The guy was no so much ignorant as just reading what his research gave him. If you give the same test to peoples from different cultures, some will just not do as well. But IQ is part of psychology and neuroscience, which are still new sciences. The IQ test has been debated and rewritten many times.

All in all, his research would have said that black and those from a lower social economic status didn't score as well, because though it's sad, that's what happens. The test didn't cross the cultural gap as well between whites and blacks, and people from a lower SES generally don't make the best grades.

You have to realize, though, Burk was born in the late 1800's and did a lot of research in the early and mid 1900's. He was around with Freud, when psychology was just starting. Burt was not an ignorant man, just recording his research. Burt was actually a great psychologist and did amazing pioneer work in the fields child and educational psychology.

[Belriel]

I would like to see an 'IQ' test that uses objective data from an active MRI or PET scan. Maybe some way to judge brain activity or something along those lines. THEN, sex and race may be valid criteria because they affect genetics and the genetics affect the brain.