A new world order opinion poll

[Anime Daisuki]

Article From The Times
June 17, 2009
Brazil, Russia, India and China form bloc to challenge US dominance
Tony Halpin in Yekaterinburg

"With public hugs and backslaps among its leaders, a new political bloc was formed yesterday to challenge the global dominance of the United States.

The first summit of heads of state of the BRIC countries — Brazil, Russia, India and China — ended with a declaration calling for a “multipolar world order”, diplomatic code for a rejection of America’s position as the sole global superpower.

President Medvedev of Russia went further in a statement with his fellow leaders after the summit, saying that the BRIC countries wanted to “create the conditions for a fairer world order”. He described the meeting with President Lula da Silva of Brazil, the Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, and the Chinese President, Hu Jintao, as “an historic event”.

The BRIC bloc brings together four of the world’s largest emerging economies, representing 40 per cent of the world’s population and 15 per cent of global GDP. The leaders set out plans to co-operate on policies for tackling the global economic crisis at the next G20 summit in the US in September."

...continued:
www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6514737.ece

[Chronopolice]

A positive development indeed. This might move forward the timetable for an eventual planetary unification.

It is sad to see that US dominance being challenged at this crucial time. However it is more important that the US keeps its lead on science and technology. It will ensure that its vitality as a nation-state won't falter in the coming generations.

[Relalix]

Actually im glad to see the US withering into redundancy. Thing is, ive got a bit of a communistic view - you know, everyone's human. And, it doesn't matter if the US is the world leader in sciences - let's face it, Russia are planning a permanent moonbase by either 2025 or 2020, so if the US can keep up there, ill be surprised. I think they should keep to within their own borders, progress at their own pace and leave other countries be unless its for trade or something.

Other thing is though, planetary unification would be bad. It might sound ideal, but who'll run it? Then we have a massive problem - if one man says something, everyone everywhere has to go along with it. It'd only work if the influence of the Federal Reserves diminishes and its run as a republic. That way we have an ideal world.

[New Dracora]

Jun 17, 2009 13:43:25 GMT -5 Relalix said:

Other thing is though, planetary unification would be bad. It might sound ideal, but who'll run it?

...the Illuminati?



I don't know... I've heard similar rhetoric regarding the EU and AU yet still, here we are. tbh it's gonna take more than agreements at the top end of politics to get the world to unify under a single body - in this case you'd have to get past individual ideals regarding nationism and national identity.

[Salinthal]

I don't care that the US is fading. It is the result of weak policy, corrupt leaders and failing standards (in many areas). 10 years ago critics who noticed this were scoffed at and treated like lunatics. The US is behind in math, science and technology. We have been lacking in these departments for some time.

The demise follows many years as a wold superpower. Historically world powers fail and new ones arise. That is the way of things. It could have been forestalled or the transition could have been smoother but once again poor (mentally and morally) leadership did not allow such to occur.

[Chronopolice]

My concern with this is that the BRIC is worse than the US.

Look at the 2 prominent members China and Russia. We all know their respective backgrounds.

No problems with India. Brazil, well, I'd do more research on them.

Now we need the US and NATO more than ever. It looks like the Cold War is back again in another format.

[Petalumadom]

The Russian president did admit at the meeting (or right before or after) that the US dollar as the international currency was still necessary.

If you do not measure GDP by purchasing power parity the US is the #1 economy (no matter how you measure it it is) almost 3 times larger than the #2 economy... Japan.

Germany and China are neck and neck for third (the world bank ranks Germany as #3)

The state of California has a similar sized economy to all the other nations in the group.

I'm not saying this meeting was insignificant... it was more symbolic than anything else. But the US dominance is not anywhere close to being over we have a lot of room to fall before getting close to even equal with anyone. That's not to say it can't happen if *cough* certain things keep continuing.

[Anime Daisuki]

California is hopeless. It's going to go bankrupt in August if the legislators can't agree on a economic plan... You live in CA too so I don't have to say...

[Chronopolice]

What would happen if a state goes bankrupt?

[Enigmatic]

I'm sure there would be some sort of bailout. We're doing it for everything else, why should a state be left out?

[Relalix]

Jun 24, 2009 9:16:47 GMT -5 Chronopolice said:

Now we need the US and NATO more than ever. It looks like the Cold War is back again in another format.

nah. if it werent for the cold war we wouldnt need the us at all.

i mean, what was the point? a couple of arguments, 10000 nukes (one for each island ^^) and 300 ICBMs which if all fired had the firepower to destroy the world 4 times over. I reckon they were built primarily as a bluff - never meant to be used, despite the fact that all the US generals were pressuring Kennedy into a launch.

Only the US culd have started something like that.

I will admit though it looks like Obama has a plan to get out of the economic crisis Bush got us all into (he loaned out to too many people who couldnt pay back) so provided he still has an influence - not dominance, but influence - we should be alright.

[Enigmatic]

Jun 29, 2009 2:03:37 GMT -5 Relalix said:

despite the fact that all the US generals were pressuring Kennedy into a launch.

That's an exaggeration. I'm not sure if you're referring to a specific event or not, but there have always been plenty of generals advocating restraint and appropriate use of force. Unfortunately, often times the Joints Chiefs or other military officers have been portrayed as trigger happy and eager for war when in most cases they were in fact quite sensible.

[sunseeker]

Jun 28, 2009 12:51:34 GMT -5 Enigmatic said:

I'm sure there would be some sort of bailout. We're doing it for everything else, why should a state be left out?

You're doing it everywhere else? I'm sorry but I can't see that. What I see is bailouts of companies (80% of them are financial companies) that are "too big to fail". America is wasting money to bail out companies that in my oppinion caused the recession. That's banks and mainly Wall Street.
If I understand the economy it's the people that should be given the money because if capitalism is to survive they are the ones that should be given money to spend. I think GM would have survived that way.

[Nolishiwan]

Jun 21, 2009 3:20:17 GMT -5 New Dracora said:

tbh it's gonna take more than agreements at the top end of politics to get the world to unify under a single body - in this case you'd have to get past individual ideals regarding nationism and national identity.

Well, there are even "quarrels" between neighboring towns sometimes. Or between provinces/states/cantons. The nation lives all the same. Though these things are mostly just one mocking the other, not hating eachother...

[Lion Kindom]

I'm too tired to actually post a really long debate, but I do think the power the US has should be distributed more freely.

Good night. (Yawn)

[New Dracora]

Jul 15, 2009 5:46:20 GMT -5 Nolishiwan said:

Jun 21, 2009 3:20:17 GMT -5 New Dracora said:

tbh it's gonna take more than agreements at the top end of politics to get the world to unify under a single body - in this case you'd have to get past individual ideals regarding nationism and national identity.

Well, there are even "quarrels" between neighboring towns sometimes. Or between provinces/states/cantons. The nation lives all the same. Though these things are mostly just one mocking the other, not hating eachother...

Indeed, and I think you'll find that in a lot of those places there was a lot of violence involved with the formation of said nations - American civil war, War of the roses, French revolution, etc.

In fact, I think Australia is the only nation on earth that was able to unify peacefully - although that is most likely because said unifying parties were seperated by many kilometres of scrub and most aussies couldn't be arsed to go that far when they could just as easily go to the local pub to beat up on someone.

[Adriatic Islands]

Well, I highly doubt that the US will decline in influence anytime soon, we're ahead in nearly everything, sure we have our problems, but what nation doesn't?

[New Dracora]

...Bhutan?

[Accland]

The United States of America will soon "bounce back" with their North American Union with Canada and Mexico.This will be boosted by the new currency that they are talking about...the "Amero" for the Union.

[Greek People Nation (GPN)]

You have to be kidding me! That would just ruin us.

[New Dracora]

Oct 22, 2009 12:02:24 GMT -5 Accland said:

The United States of America will soon "bounce back" with their North American Union with Canada and Mexico.This will be boosted by the new currency that they are talking about...the "Amero" for the Union.

What about Cuba and all the other island nations of the caribbean?

[morlago]

What is an "Amero"?

[Accland]

The "Amero" is a new currency that is being talked about for the North American Union.Some believe it's true, others don't.Conspiracy theorists DO believe.They beleive that eventually there will be a world currency(one for all).With the Euro being dominant in the center of the world map, the Amero covering the west, and a single currency for the east, eventually leading to a one world currency with one world bank.

[LondonCity]

tbh i would rather take US freedoms over rule by a bunch of dictators. not that it would matter, because there is no chance of those four forming an alliance. for one thing the Indians don't even like the Chinese.

[morlago]

Cite your source.

[Chronopolice]

He's referring to the proposed BRIC group. I think it's Brazil, Russia, India and China.

Brazil, India and Russia are republics. China is the dictatorship.

He is correct in assessing that they will have difficulty forming BRIC. India and China are at odds over disputed territory.

[LondonCity]

thanks Chronopolice. i wasnt actually thinking of the difference between forms of government tbh, it was your other point, the fight over Kashmir. the whole reason the Indians are prioritising defence increases is not to deter Pakistan, because they have been left way behind, it is because the Chinese are seen as a threat to them.

but sure what would i know, i just do IR at university...

[Christians A Liberty]

Global Dominance is bad for everyone not just the U.S. Countries will not be able to control their own destiny.