Westboro Baptis Church is Evil

[svain]

Can anyone say that this is not an evil group? How as a nation can we shut these people down?

[evestigio]

Not evil simply misguided and disturbing. Unfortunately thats the price you pay for free speech you have people you may not agree with(to a high extent). But in order to keep free speech for all you must grant them the same rights as others.

[The Nautilus Islands]

They are not evil, nor misguided.

They are hilarious and need their own national radio show so that their psychosis may be on display to the whole nation and mocked appropriately.

[Ultavia]

I condsider them horribly misguided... considering the things they've said as well as the things they've done. For example, they've gone to canada to protest at a funeral for a guy who was murdered on a bus... just because they believed he was killed because he was gay. In truth, that wasn't even the case, and the guy wasn't even gay. this would probably be an extreme example of what would call "religious ignorance," in which one interprets what they believe from their religion, and refuse to allow what may be either the actual truth on certain subjects, In this case, WBC and homosexuality in general.

[svain]

I am all for supporting the first amendment right to speech. But the question would be, are these people taking it to a point where it infringes on the rights of others? If they are then it is unconstitutional and against the law.

[Takaram]

On a personal moral ground, I find the Westboro Baptist Church appalling, and an example of religion at it's worst. However, once again my desire for freedom for the individual finds itself in conflict with my personal opinions, and as always, the freedom wins. The WBC has the right to say what it wants, to a degree. If a member of the WBC, influenced by the Church's hateful message, commits a crime, the Church should still be held responsible. They should also be kept separate from grieving families.

[Inquirius]

See what happens when the transcendent teachings of a homeless, penniless nomad philosopher get perverted and watered down over the course of 2000 years? Jesus should step down here for a second and kick these people in the face.

www.examiner.com/x-10853-Portland-Humanist-Examiner~y2010m4d9-Westboro-Baptist-Church-too-extreme-for-Klu-Klux-Klan

Seriously though, when even the Ku Klux Klan thinks you're nuts, maybe it's time to rethink your worldview.

[Guy]

In one sentence?
f**king morons who don't deserve to live. I hope that statement isn't controversial, as it shouldn't be.

[svain]

Yeah, I found them to be offensive, and wrong just like the rest, but I keep reading about 1st amendment rights.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

For one who are they petitioning, they aren't petitioning a governors, mayors, presidents, senator's or any other government building other than schools. Secondly, what are they trying to achieve, at worst, they are stepping in and worsening the health and happiness of the families who have lost somebody dear to them. btw. isn't that against the law, depression is a sickness, and if you were to intentionally make somebody sick with a virus, wouldn't they throw you in jail. What is the difference with intentionally in-sighting depression. I don't see one. And even if they were petitioning the government, are they not trying to get the government to make a law based on a religious doctrine (their religious doctrine). What would they have the government do, kill all the gay people, send them out of the country, what. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. They would step in the way of at least two of those for any Gay person. Isn't that against the law. So Yes they are criminals and I feel the government has every right to shut them down.

[svain]

oh yeah, and Child abuse is also a crime, take those kids away.

[svain]

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[Enigmatic]

They are morons, but their is no law forbidding stupidity.
They are offensive, but there is no law forbidding rudeness
They are misguided, but there is no law forbidding following the wrong path.
They are spewers of hate, but there is no law forbidding harboring hate within one's heart.

They have broken no laws. As painful as it is, they must be allowed to be stupid and offensive and ignorant and hateful. Until such time as they break the law, the government has no right to intervene in how they practice their religion or how they raise their children. As soon as the government does that, it opens the door to a great many abuses. That door must be left closed.

That, however, does not forbid the private citizen from speaking out against such hate, ignorance, stupidity, offensiveness, and outright folly. It is not the place of the government to stop these people; it is ours. It is on our heads to make sure that this heretical sect of Christianity remains confined, that it converts no new followers, that it's children hear truth instead of hate, and that it dies with its founders or at least fades into obscurity. It is within our power to do this.

[Anime Daisuki]

Well look at the bright side, misguided they may be, at least they are not suicide bombers.

[Petalumadom]

Apr 27, 2010 19:06:57 GMT -5 Anime Daisuki said:

Well look at the bright side, misguided they may be, at least they are not suicide bombers.

that is always a plus.

[Guy]

Apr 27, 2010 16:14:59 GMT -5 Enigmatic said:

They are morons, but their is no law forbidding stupidity.
They are offensive, but there is no law forbidding rudeness
They are misguided, but there is no law forbidding following the wrong path.
They are spewers of hate, but there is no law forbidding harboring hate within one's heart.

They have broken no laws. As painful as it is, they must be allowed to be stupid and offensive and ignorant and hateful. Until such time as they break the law, the government has no right to intervene in how they practice their religion or how they raise their children. As soon as the government does that, it opens the door to a great many abuses. That door must be left closed.

That, however, does not forbid the private citizen from speaking out against such hate, ignorance, stupidity, offensiveness, and outright folly. It is not the place of the government to stop these people; it is ours. It is on our heads to make sure that this heretical sect of Christianity remains confined, that it converts no new followers, that it's children hear truth instead of hate, and that it dies with its founders or at least fades into obscurity. It is within our power to do this.

The question is, in a society where there are such extremists, who are an extremely small and marginalized part of the society, would you not prefer them to be illegal?

[Enigmatic]

Apr 28, 2010 2:10:03 GMT -5 Guy said:

The question is, in a society where there are such extremists, who are an extremely small and marginalized part of the society, would you not prefer them to be illegal?

No. They have not broken any existing law and I see no need to change the laws to ban them, especially since such change in laws would open the door to abuse of Constitutional rights. Furthermore, we do not need the government to stop these people. You said yourself that they are extremely small and marginalized. We could score a great victory against them simply by not giving them the sort of coverage they desire. Cut them off, expose their children as much as possible to the truth; eventually they will die. I will say again that it is within our power to stop them and no laws need to be changed to do it.

When the federal government starts interfering in the private lives of citizens, something has gone terribly wrong. As soon as a government cracks down on a group for holding offensive signs and saying offensive things, something has gone terribly wrong. When did this become a society in which no one is allowed to offend another? Yes, they offend my sensibilities (and faith for that matter) as well as those of everyone else I know, but that is their right under United State law. It's also my right to argue just as vehemently against them. When they harm another, then they can be prosecuted, as individuals or a group depending on the situation. Until they actually break the law, however, the government cannot and should not intervene. Private citizens(Christians especially), however, have the right and the duty to speak out proudly and strongly against this perversion.

[Guy]

Enig, I was actually trying to give you a theoretical, hypothetical example, NOT in modern-US.
"
I do find "(Christians especially)" to be weird and even offensive.

[Inquirius]

guy0307 said:

Enig, I was actually trying to give you a theoretical, hypothetical example, NOT in modern-US.
"
I do find "(Christians especially)" to be weird and even offensive.

While you may find various Christian teachings offensive, it's not a good idea to broadly paint "Christians especially" as being weird. Single them out individually if you want to do that.

I think Enig is right in calling for Christians to denounce the Westboro Baptist Church. Whether we like it or not, the voice of Christianity is still insanely influential. If all denominations of Christianity can agree that the Westboro Baptist Church is full of misguided heretics, then they will be ostracized even more. This will hurt them, and that's what matters. Christians are perfectly positioned to hurt the WBC badly.

edit: I got to use the word "heretic." ;D

[Pessimistic Sarcasm]

it is a disgrace to Christianity, and i think i can speak for all Christians. Christian values simply state that u should respect someone else's religion, but how can we respect this heretical so-called "Christian" church when it completely makes fun of what it means to be Christian? It totally warps the image of Christianity. Period.

[Enigmatic]

Apr 29, 2010 2:34:19 GMT -5 Guy said:

Enig, I was actually trying to give you a theoretical, hypothetical example, NOT in modern-US.
"
I do find "(Christians especially)" to be weird and even offensive.

I guess I didn't see the theoretical part. I still stand by my comments even if they don't quite fit with your question.

I didn't mean to be offensive. Perhaps I wasn't clear. "This perversion" refers to Westboro Baptist Church. When I say "Christians especially" I mean to say that the people of Westboro Baptist church claim to be Christians and doing the will of God, therefore Christians should take a special interest in refuting their claims. They give all Christians a bad name when they say the things they do and only serve to drive people further from Christ. Christians should be doing everything in their power to bring people to Christ and refute heresy.

[Guy]

Apr 29, 2010 20:11:18 GMT -5 Enigmatic said:

Apr 29, 2010 2:34:19 GMT -5 Guy said:

Enig, I was actually trying to give you a theoretical, hypothetical example, NOT in modern-US.
"
I do find "(Christians especially)" to be weird and even offensive.

I guess I didn't see the theoretical part. I still stand by my comments even if they don't quite fit with your question.

I didn't mean to be offense. Perhaps I wasn't clear. "This perversion" refers to Westboro Baptist Church. When I say "Christians especially" I mean to say that the people of Westboro Baptist church claim to be Christians and doing the will of God, therefore Christians should take a special interest in refuting their claims. They give all Christians a bad name when they say the things they do and only serve to drive people further from Christ. Christians should be doing everything in their power to bring people to Christ and refute heresy.

OK, that clears it up a bit. As a Jew, I think I have the right to say that I couldn't be more offended by their actions.

[Pessimistic Sarcasm]

hey! wow! People from different religions and different ethnic groups all pretty much agree that Westboro Baptist Church is offensive! We could really do something about it here!

[Enigmatic]

Oh, yeah. I didn't mean to imply that only Christians should speak out against them. Jews, Muslims, atheists, anybody who thinks they're wrong should of course speak up. Being a Christian myself, I view it first as a church problem. These people have perverted Christ's teaching and it's the responsibility of other Christians to set them straight.

[Takaram]

Apr 30, 2010 8:48:40 GMT -5 Pessimistic Sarcasm said:

hey! wow! People from different religions and different ethnic groups all pretty much agree that Westboro Baptist Church is offensive! We could really do something about it here!

Oh yeah. They've managed to piss off just about every group in America.

[Pessimistic Sarcasm]

Apr 30, 2010 14:48:48 GMT -5 Takaram said:

Apr 30, 2010 8:48:40 GMT -5 Pessimistic Sarcasm said:

hey! wow! People from different religions and different ethnic groups all pretty much agree that Westboro Baptist Church is offensive! We could really do something about it here!

Oh yeah. They've managed to piss off just about every group in America.

yep, and that is the perfect way not to get themselves killed, i can see.(sarcasm intended)

[djsvain]

Again, is it not against the law to cause somebody health problems. Would you not punish a person for intentionally spreading a virus. Would you not charge somebody who knowing they had aids had unprotected sex with somebody for attempted murder? That is what those actions are. The parents and families of these dead soldiers have had to go to therapists and battled depression and anxiety because of the things the wbc does. To me depression is as much a disease as aids and intentionally causing duress that could very possibly lead to depression is a crime.

[The Theban Legion]

Yeah freedom wins here and the Church though idiotic and misguided will always be allowed to speak in a free country .

[Silvermain]

Firstly, I'd like to say that I far from agree with the WBC and their views.

BUT, they are completely justified in their beliefs. They can think what they want, and they can protest whatever they want. The Enigmatic Nation is right in saying that stepping in and stopping these people from saying what they want to is horribly wrong. As offensive as we might find this church, and as hurtful as we see them, they feel the same way. I am disturbed and offended when they protest, but they feel the same when I decide to go out and protest for gay rights. It probably hurts just thinking that anyone would try to offend their beliefs by promoting "bundle of stickss" and their rights.

[Takaram]

May 22, 2010 18:24:19 GMT -5 Silvermain said:

Firstly, I'd like to say that I far from agree with the WBC and their views.

BUT, they are completely justified in their beliefs. They can think what they want, and they can protest whatever they want. The Enigmatic Nation is right in saying that stepping in and stopping these people from saying what they want to is horribly wrong. As offensive as we might find this church, and as hurtful as we see them, they feel the same way. I am disturbed and offended when they protest, but they feel the same when I decide to go out and protest for gay rights. It probably hurts just thinking that anyone would try to offend their beliefs by promoting "f*gs" and their rights.

And you know what, I really am ok with that. I am generally a very tolerant person, and I am willing to tolerate just about any viewpoint in existence, so long as the people holding that viewpoint don't try to force it on others or advocate violence against another group. The WBC, unfortunately, does both of these things.

[Silvermain]

It also helps to just think of them as hilarious :)