Taxation - Setting a maximum level

[lowetania]

Although a relative newcomer to NS I have noted, as I have visited other member nations of the 10000 islands that some of you have income tax rates of 100%! I believe that we, as civilised persons should formulate a WA proposal to place a maximum cap of the taxation levels in member nations, even if this is at 80 or 90%, thus ensuring that our people have at least some monies remaining for them to spend on survival.

I have not been here long enough to consider myself competent enough to draft the proposal myself but would be interested in discussing how you would feel about such legislation and the effect it would have on not only your individual nations but on NS as a whole.

I open the floor to you, my fellow islanders ...

[Ananke II]

I don't think such a proposal would be allowed, since it deals with a gamemechanics change. E.i. in order to cap all member nations' tax rate at 80% the NS admins would have to make changes to the game code.

[lowetania]

Fair point I guess but I have to feel for the people in countries where say 935 million pay 100% income tax. This is effectively Slavery. They have had EVERY LAST PENNY taken from them by the government, thus forcing them into absolute poverty, and yet the nation still grows and the people are still happy. Surely this is an issue they should be willing to address, if only for improved realism. If we were told to pay these levels of taxation there would be a bloodbath and perhaps this is something worthy of their efforts.

[Ananke II]

Nationstates is a parody, though. For me, I don't care that my nation has a 100% tax rate, since in order to cut down on it I'd have to sacrifice too much spending on welfare, education and the environment.

[Guy]

In fact, you'd find citizens in my nation are far better-off than in many nations with a much lower tax rate.

[lowetania]

I was looking at in from a realism perspective but I guess that would be changing the game substantially and making it something else. And since this game has been here for years now it would seem to be thriving without it. I will just have to get my head round it, its a problem of mine, too firmly grounded in reality for my own good. I need to get into escapism mode and stop taking everything too seriously. I stopped playing Tribal Wars because others would not take it more seriously .. must be an age thing

[Pompadoodle]

I think that the 100% income tax thing is open to multiple interpretations. A 100% tax rate in a Psychotic Dictatorship doesn't necessarily represent the same thing as a 100% tax rate in a Left-wing Utopia or Scandanavian Liberal Paradise.

One interpretation, as you say, is that people are effectively government slaves. This works fine with at least some 100% tax nations- the psychotic dictatorships etc. However, it appears to conflict with the very high levels of civil and political freedom that nations such as Ananke II obviously have. Its hard to envisage Ananke's citizens being any sort of slave at all, since they have far better rights than people anywhere in the RW.

Another way of looking at it would be that the citizens of Ananke II have no money income. This could be because they live in an anarcho-communist society in which money has been abolished- the kind of society that theorists such as Kropotkin and Emma Goldman argued for. I think thats a much better interpretation of a left-wing utopia with a 100% tax rate.

[lowetania]

Okay, I can buy into that angle, or rather I would if there were any money to buy in with.

[Coltonians]

It might make a good issue to draft up.

[Globexanter]

Reduce the tax rate, and the governement cannot pay for the police, the education, and everything wich costs cash. ( Buildings for the poor, hospitals... )

[MPlowsia]

As was said about, the 100% tax rate may not be a necessarily bad thing. Since the game mechanics can be limiting, it should be up to individual nations to decide what that tax rating means. Maybe they provide an open market for trade amongst their people in a money-free system, or maybe they are kicked back a ration. Maybe they aren't paid at all, but instead given credits proportional to the money they pay in which gets them services and goods.

[lowetania]

I am now convinced that my 'desire for realism' has been put aside in respect of what NS is. I can now see that the tax levels system in use is a good one and am quite happy to see this thread vanish, unless of course it be left for others with the same issue to stumble upon when they are new like me to help clarify their understanding of the system as it has for me. Your call mods.

[Risoid]

i'll pick it up, as the newest nation to stumble this way. in an ideal government, which takes care of everything for you, health, education, medical, transportation, dwellings, food, recreation, pursuit of happiness, spiritual growth, etc. 100% tax simply means, everybody works for the gov. all efforts in every field are all unified toward the collective well-being. am i right? like kids having to do chores, no matter what the chore is. and the reward for the chore is privilege, the result of the chore is betterment for the family

[Globexanter]

It is not impossible to reduce your tax rate, but even to get it down to 80 % would turn your economy into something very low.

[Boltor]

Well from a real world economics viewpoint, a 100 % tax rate is in my view virtually a Planned economy (aka a command economy), and there would be no 'private' enterprise (as all enterprise is undertaken under government decision to undertake that enterprise).

I have a bias towards having a mixed economy (some government regulation of the market economy), so employing rational decision making, I prefer to rely on accepted economic theory when it comes to the maximizing government revenue in relation to the tax rate (Laffer curve in macroeconomics). The Laffer curve theory has a hypothesis that a 100% tax rate will also generate no revenue because at such a rate there is no longer any incentive for a rational taxpayer to earn any income, thus the revenue raised will be 100% of nothing. (There will still be the possibility that the government forces people to undertake production, the population just won't make any money, but this leads to issues of morality and idealism, and debate of whether that is economically efficient for its people).

I don't think a cap on the maximum tax rate should be implemented by the WA since it is within the realm of possibility to have a 100% tax rate be beneficial to the populace of the nation, if the government can get the job done with social/wealth equality in a sort of command economy resulting in a "Utopia" (people view governments which employ 100% tax rate wrongly as only Dystopian or corrupt or have an obscene amount of bureaucracy or require supercomputers to run it's "human slave" population or a mind controlled population or population with hive mind mentality or a bunch of commies or.......). I don't want to limit those "utopias" of 100% tax rate from joining and being part of the WA. (Also I also acknowledge this would require separate code for WA and non-WA nations in relation to tax rate determination).

I could however agree to a human rights proposal to ban dystopian/corrupt governments in the WA from using slavery (in the form of 100% tax rate) from the WA. Oh wait RESOLUTION #232 Abolition of Slavery and RESOLUTION #233 Abolition of Forced Labour already exist.

[Globexanter]

I know the slavery thing is bad, I've seen some Nations buy slaves under the pretext to release them. But so many seem to sell them :L

[Redvaders]

i agree 100% is not really that bad

[Redvaders]

slaves are bad

[Redvaders]

please donate me tacos

[Redvaders]

who came up with tacos

[Anime Daisuki]

Redvaders:
You need to stop spamming now. You may only spam in Taco Island.

In all other subforums, post only when you have something substantial to contribute to the thread.

This will be your only warning

-AD *wearing mod hat*

[Globexanter]