The Paraskev Incident

[stinkyhippies]

Hey,
As a new guy, the booting of Paraskev is my first experience of seeing someone booted from 10k Islands. I have a telegram inviting me to the 'collective' he joined and ranting about the fascist nature of his being removed.
Now, so far I haven't seen anything here to indicate a predeliction for fascism, but his arguements were strong and if 100% accurate, the action does smack as fascism. He claims he was booted because he received over 50% of the number of endorsements as currently held by our UN rep.
I'm hoping Grub or someone in the higher leadership can answer these concerns and explain the reasoning behind Paraskev's being booted. As he cannot prove proff, I offer our leaders the chance to provide some and end the he-said/she-said currently in action.

Thanks,
SH

[The UKS]

Paraskev Used A Method Of Endorsing People, Not Cuz He Liked Them, But To Gain Another Endorsment From That Person. He "Endorsed" Nations That He KNEW Would Endorse Him Back.

Regards,
The UKS

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

Here are two messages I posted on the regional message board.
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Everything that happened to Paraskev is outlined in our constitution. I had personally written Paraskev and I know others had as well before he was ejected for 48 hours (now he is banned for life because of his mass telegramming). He knew exactly what was going on.

The bottom line is that he didn't want to follow the rules. That is fine, but he cannot be part of this region if he is secretly trying to garner endorsements while ignoring our constitution. We do have rules and they must be enforced. Paraskev knew about what would happen if he kept getting more endorsements, so his ignorance cannot be his excuse. It was his choice and he chose to put his desire for endorsements over the 10000 Islands constitution.

Good riddance to such a nation.

Grub
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This region is governed by the principles set forth in the 10000 Islands constitution including the rules about nations having more than half the endorsements of the *elected* Delegate.

I would like to see as many people in this region as possible, but 2.2.1 is part of the constitution and it is for the good of the region. 2.2.1 will also be enforced when nations disregard it. 2.2.1 is a good rule and it's good for the region. All nations are welcome to be a part of the 10000 Islands, but no nation is forced to stay here.

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

I have also posted our constitution (found in the Great Library) to the top of this board. Section 2.2.1 is the part Paraskev violated.

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

Also, one other thing that I didn't mention about Paraskev was that he was in TITO, yet never took part in missions despite him being online. Just the other day I personally sent him TITO orders and he ignored those orders. Those actions are not enough to get you booted from this region, but are suspicious, to say the least, and are worthy of ejection from TITO.

What got Paraskev ejected form the region were his endorsements, that I and others had warned him about.

[Henneth annun]

He went on an agressive endorsement trail and we listened. I didn't ask for any and I have 12 endorsements. I don't want any more than that.

[Sheynat]

A lot of people use that. I've noticed that ninety-nine percent of those with double-digit endorsement lists are pretty much people who have made a habit of endorsing random people and waiting for them to be polite and endorse you back. Whether they do it conciously to amass endorsements or they just randomly endorse people, pretty much the only people with more than twenty endorsements who don't do that are delegates. It's no big deal...until you use the trick to make a run on the Delegacy. He claims he wasn't, but that's bull. His intent was almost certainly to seize the delegacy. Look at the situation. He finds the liberals, exchanges endorsements with them. He joined TITO-a good cover, right? But he forgot to keep his cover current. Basically, it was a surreptitous coup attempt. Whether by a loner or an enemy group, I would lay money that that was the situation.

[Bad Infinitum]

Grub said:

Also, one other thing that I didn't mention about Paraskev was that he was in TITO, yet never took part in missions despite him being online. Just the other day I personally sent him TITO orders and he ignored those orders.

Participating in a TITO mission would lose him all of his endorsements.

[Sheynat]

The guy kept a list of those who endorsed him. I mean, the dude had a hard-copy somewhere. I left on a TITO mission, came back, and the dude reminded me to endorse him. He didn't even bother asking why I was in a different region; only why my name was no longer on his endorsement list. He would have just sent telegrams to everybody who endorsed him and be like 'Hey, re-endorse me!" On top of that, hello? Naoi went on TITO missions in the middle of a legitimate delegate race.

[The Peoples of Yavanna]

SH, I think what's important to understand is that he received ample warning. The article in the constitution was pointed out to him by more than one person, the rules were made plain. This didn't happen overnight, he wasn't suddenly ejected; as a matter of fact, he continued to seek endorsements. It wasn't a black-and-white thing where Grub looked at his endorsements, ejected him, and then told him the rules ex-post facto.

Paraskev just continued to ignore the rules and do as he pleased.... and since practically every region on NS has rules (or, if they are blessed, actual constitutions) that must be followed, or you face ejection, he had to have known what would happen if he continued to ignore the rules.

This endorsement rule is a really important part of our region. If he had continued to gain endorsements, we could have been faced with a situation where members of the region could go on a large scale TITO mission, and our elected delegate could be vulnerable to takeover. And we can't allow that to happen. Just like in RL, there are laws that, if broken, carry consequences.

I hope this makes sense, SH. This constitution was voted on by original members, founding fathers, if you will. We have elected senators that serve our people. We are a democratic region, nowhere near a fascist state. Everyone has a right to speak their mind, to involve themselves in politics, to run for office... even delegate, when the position is open. Grub has even said that if you have questions or concerns about the constitution, you are welcome to voice them. Does that sound like fascism?

I think this is a truly great region, the best in nationstates!

[Sheynat]

Wrong as Paraskev may be, he's bleeding us. Not badly, but we're losing people. We're losing people because he decided to throw a tantrum over not being allowed to totally circumvent the democratic process we have in place. If he wanted the delegacy, he could have simply called for an election. He might even have won. But he had to do it quietly. He's all but admitted to having sought the delegacy. And wanting the delegacy is fine by me, but trying to grab it outside of an election? Not cool. I've debated him on this; he doesn't have a single valid point. Not a one. I could even post the telegrams, but only if people asked; they're quite long.

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

Paraskev and myself have come to an understanding, so the situation has been resolved. Plus, any nation that would rather move to another region is welcome to move, but I hope you all decide to stay

[Subwoofy]

Man, i feel kinda bad know because thats kinda what i did,i wasn't trying to take the UN Delegete spot or anything but i kinda endores people just to be nice if they endores.

[Sheynat]

Same here. I endorse anybody who endorses me. Mpst folks do. But Paraskev was trying to take the delegacy. When you're flat out told "Reduce your endorsements or face ejection" and you fail to reduce your endorsements, you were planning something.

[New Boniventure]

One thing Paraskev had shown anger about is how Boktavia voted on certain UN proposals. I'm not sure that he was simply unaware that Boktavia makes his decisions on how people vote in the forums, or if he was just unwilling to take part in a democratic process and deal with the possibility that things just might not always go his way.

It's good to hear that things have been resolved, though. Now we can at least try to put this all behind us.

[TheSensitiveNewAge]

Hey folks, it's great that you ask questions about this and other issues. Keep it up, it leads to communication that stregthens the region, makes friends, and promotes learning.

[Tierra de Madre]

Thanks for explaining stuff to me a bit TSNA (soz, couldn't be bothered typing the name ).
This thread was very helpful, to give you all some feedback. When I first heard about it I was slightly suspicious of why he suddenly got ejected, but I get it now, and agree with it and everything.