What about you Bratesbourgh? (Del 10/04)

[TheSensitiveNewAge]

What about you Bratesbourgh? You have asked me a lot of questions, yet have not revealed much about yourself.

Why don't you have a thread on this site?

Why are you so interested in how a candidate runs his or her own nation?

To borrow a question from Sheynat, what would you do to promote regional growth?

[Bratesbourgh]

Of course, then shall we declare this as my thread, if you don't mind.

The promotion of the 10000 Island Group lies both in promotion of freedom and enterprise in decisions that lie among the 10000 Islands Community.

I will begin with consideration and views of the Delegate, and as you have states some important duties of the delegate, I cannot doubt your intention in such matters. However, I ponder a nation that governs as a joke, without a direction and consideration of an important aspect of the U.N. As membership is dictated by our Constitution, and required for full citizenship it is our duty not only to obey the resolutions of the U.N. but also how it will affect the memberstates period.

Now, one could argue that one could just ignore the U.N. completely, as its resolutions really have no legal basis really, and is just part of the game per se. Then again, the U.N. requirement and the community of the 10000 Islands is then based solely on TITO. I will not argue that TITO is not important, but I have noticed this community is completely oriented to TITO and that it lacks any political force in the UN nor works much with the prevention or assistance in bringing certain resolutions to the table. First, the conservative governments in particular are affronted by many of the U.N. Resolutions that are brought before the community, now as a whole one could say the 10000 Islands Community perhaps voted such or allowed such things in. Yet, it is a common practice to have a puppet state belong to the U.N. with a ruling one seperate and free of certain bindings.

An important and I feel lacking part is dialogue with the community in matters of peace also. The International Law is not about rules or politics, but also a dialogue in power and social views intertwined in promotion of ideals. Are we to also instill and promote our beliefs of freedom to live free through out the world? One great way to bring new members, active members, and active and healthy members for both TITO and the government is open dialogue both inter and intra. As Delegate I will open communication lines in matters of dimplomacy, laws, politics, and viewpoints, and freely share such information with the whole 10000 Island Community. A open and transparent conversation that is viewed and debated allows freedom and personal expression, as well as great advertisment of our nations in harmony.

As for my curiousity of how certain governments run themselves give me an insight into the person or government that wishes to be Delegate. I wish to know how certain governments come into relation with International Resolutions, how they would dialogue with other nations, how they would govern and determine legal matters and legal definitions. Now, you could argue there is a difference between your nation and how you would act in a different matter, but I feel they could be intertwined in some matter. As I said, I'm not faulting nor passing judgement in a value concern on your nations politics, as we all are fit to see how our nation grows and moves through time. But, I pondered your view of another important part of the position of Delegate, as being a representative of our community to the world via the U.N. and how you will interact with the U.N. politic and the current systems be brought forth.

Lastly, I would like to see more active political parties and healthy debates in particular. Not a simple thread on the current Resolution on hand, but a real political, civil and lively debate on proposals being brought, what laws the 10000 Islands would wish to be brought forth, and how this group wishes to affect world politics in a legal and another important part of the game.

I feel that TITO as important is a great for the NationState whole, however I'd like to see the Delegate be also important besides defense in military and zone protection. Fleeb and the TITO leaders are of great value to us all, and I salute you for keeping a healthy zone for me to discuss matters such as this, for the freedom to come and join you all in such matters, and importantly allow me to even attempt to gain a position in the government. However, looking in the politics there is a strain that grows for non-U.N. members who are disgusted by the U.N. and feel it limiting them in their views. Perhaps I represent an expression, a force, a feeling, I do not know, but I want to bring another important part to this group, a peaceful and political branch that expresses itself to the world, one not known for just defending regions, but also expressing ideals and principles of harmony.

It has been states I have little in Awards in TITO, and perhaps not fit for the position, but I disagree with such matters. However, I have been asked by Fleeb to join him in a current dispute. This would be problematic as soon as I leave the zone I will lose my endorsements, and negate my attempts to election. If it is the wishes of Grub and the Senators of the whole that I withdraw from this election and join Fleeb and TITO in defense of another region, I will do so gladly.

Bratesbourgh

[Serconea]

You've no TITO record whatsoever and you've been around just as long as I have. You'd at least have the North Pacific Liberation Star.

I may have only two Battle Stars, but then again I live in a different time zone to most Islanders.

TheSensitiveNewAge has been around for far longer. He took part in the Empire of Power Defense. I hope to be delegate myself, but if I don't win, I'd like him to be delegate.

Your statement is very hard to read and understand. By the way, but why should how someone runs their nation be so important? Many people may only RP dictatorships and be strong RL democrats. There are probably liberals who RP conservative and vice versa.

Your question "Are we all soldiers and no politicians?" is inaccurate. I have TITO battle stars, but I am very active in the UN. We can influence global politics. My successful Law of the Sea resolution provoked a great deal of debate, probably controversy and a very interesting RP.

The new delegate will have over 100 votes. That can swing a close resolution one way or the other. We are part of the 9th biggest NS region and the 3rd biggest player created one.

I believe you'll be bad for this region and ask you to withdraw.

[Ishkabibber]

I am unable to speak for anyone else, but Serconea has made some points that quite frankly speak for me as well. No offense intended, but I believe ANY delegate needs to be active across the board regardless. I have enough trouble making missions, but attempt them anyway.

It is easy to expound eloquently on issues of such broad and general nature, without a viable history of dedication to the region I could not in good conscience vote for you.

FWIW

The Republic of Ishkabibber

[Klington]

Ishkabibber said:

I am unable to speak for anyone else, but Serconea has made some points that quite frankly speak for me as well. No offense intended, but I believe ANY delegate needs to be active across the board regardless. I have enough trouble making missions, but attempt them anyway.
The Republic of Ishkabibber

I agree.

[Bratesbourgh]

I didn't say it was super important, I was just curious on how someone thinks and decides in governance. I was also curious on how one deals with U.N. Resolutions and comes into compliance with certain policies and regulations that are set forth.

As for my TITO record, that may be used against me if you wish, as I stated I haven't really made it much of an issue, but if it is a standard in your voting for delegate then let it be so. If you want the next Delegate to be a strong TITO leader, perhaps a founder of TITO, then obviously Sensitive is your man.

If you agree with me, and want to endorse me, than I am your man. I wish you the best of luck in your election attempts Serconea, and if you so feel it is better for you to endorse Sensitive and swing your votes to him, that is fine with me too.

As I stated, it is my opinion and I feel the Delegate role needs to grow RP in all aspects of NationStates, with an emphasis making it like a Secretary of State. It needs a watchful idea of U.N. Resolutions, coordinate with its memberstates, have dialogue on a constant basis in politics and systems of thought, promote healthy political parties (as wished for by our Sen Boolari), and be visible in the whole NationStates region.

[Boolari]

I often pick random answers for Boolari's nation - for fun, to see what happens with my economy, etc.

If you look up my other nation, Boolarini, you will see it's a Corrupt Dictatorship. ;D That's because I was making it in a hurry, lol.

Anyway, I think when nations have been wondering why you haven't been on any TITO missions, it isn't a concern about military status, etc. I believe it's mostly about your dedication and enthusiasm to the region and to NationStates. Sure, you might wonder "What the hell is she talking about?" But you must admit, 10000 Islands is a defender region and we're very very proud to be one so strong and forthcoming. So your TITO record will help reflect some of your intent, regardless.

[New Age Guilds]

i dont think that our delegate has to be a military man. it helps, but i dont think its nesercery

anyway, just because he does not have a TITO record, doesnt meen hehasnt done defender stuff, heck im not even in TITO but i still do some defending

[Boolari]

That's very true.

One just has to keep in mind that their defending activity will be of interest to the public eye if one intends to run for a political office, though.

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

Activity level is very important. Bratesbourgh had around 20 total forum posts before this election began while TSNA had over 1000.

The Delegate will also be a representative of the region. If he's never even gotten a TITO Battle Star, it's hard for him to know the important bits of info to pass on to me or Field Commanders or the Tactical Officers.

[Boolari]

Here's what I'm curious about...

Brates has around 350-400 million in population and TSNA has over 3 billion.

Brates, how familiar are you to the game and to 10000 Islands? Just wonderin'! ;D

[New Age Guilds]

yes, true, though it may be interesting to see a delegate without military conections. not everyone in 10k islands is on the forum and not everyone on the forrum is in TITO

[Henneth annun]

Listen, I think Bratesbourgh is a nation who is waaaaayyyy too young to be a delagate. I think I'm too young and Inexpierend to be a delagate. And I have over 1000 posts and have been here for over 8 months!
He hasn't even taken part in the North Pacific Liberation, and If he doesn't know what that is, then I really have a problem with him having all this support!

Listen, from what I've seen in the past, You need to be a member of TITO and take part in over 15 missions to come even close to become delagate or any other seat for that matter! And you've taken part in none. The TCo9 is a relly important body and the delagate is the 2nd most powerful nation in TCo9, even 10000 Islands! And I know you guys will hate me for quote a movie, but 'with great power, comes Great responsobility' and I think that TNSA is ready for that and Bratesburogh is not yet ready.

[Sheynat]

I have to agree with all those speaking against Bratesborgh's candidacy. He came in a while ago, joined TITO, apparently just so he could run for the delegacy when Boktavia stepped down. Didn't participate in a single solitary mission. Didn't join a political party. Didn't even really post. Half his forum posts were made after he declared his candidacy. On top of that, in terms of experience, there is simply no comparison between TSNA and Bratesbourgh. TSNA was one of the founding members of TITO and has been decorated heavily. Bratesbourgh has no battle stars at all. TSNA's been around a year or more. Bratesbourgh can't even edit his pretitle. I like some of his ideas; and maybe if he'd been more active and had been around longer, I'd consider voting for him. As it is, TSNA all the way. Furthermore, pretty much all of the "active" nations oppose him. I looked at his endorsements. I've never even heard of some of these people.

[First West Acron]

I noticed something else also... most of the nations that are endorsing him have populations under 350 mil, which meens they are younger than me. Some only have populations of 10-100 mil.

[Greek Machine]

I'm very new here, but it troubles me that someone who is almost as new as I am has more endorsements/votes in delegatorial elections than TNSA, who, to my understanding, has been here for a VERY long time. I believe this is due to all this "endorsement swapping" that I have read about, where someone endorses someone and expects that person to endorse him back. This kind of thing should not be done by our delegate!

[Otupia]

Call me crazy but it smells fishy!
I do not wish to be acused of slandering my opennent,
but how is it that somany unactive nations are now all of a sudden active during an important election.

Connect the dots! I think this is a really messed up way of taking power from within!

yes some people now think that i am the crazy conspiricy guy and if it just cost me the election so be it!
Its for the Islands!

[Fleeb]

I have a very real and serious concern about this election.

1. Bratesbough states:

It has been states I have little in Awards in TITO, and perhaps not fit for the position, but I disagree with such matters. However, I have been asked by Fleeb to join him in a current dispute. This would be problematic as soon as I leave the zone I will lose my endorsements, and negate my attempts to election. If it is the wishes of Grub and the Senators of the whole that I withdraw from this election and join Fleeb and TITO in defense of another region, I will do so gladly.

This is a direct misrepresentation of my request: we are deeply involved in the defense of 0000 Middle Earth 0000 right now and I invited TITO nation Bratesbourgh to join that defense two days ago, unaware that he was even a candidate for Delegate. He pointed out his candidacy and I immediately agreed that he could hardly run a Delegate campaign while deployed. He implies I was seeking to withdraw him from the region and the race, and that is, to put it very gently, a misleading statement.

2. I have examined my records and find no instance in his record since joining TITO of his deploying in the defense of any region whatsoever. Failure to join in the work of TITO normally receives a disciplinary dismissal. Membership in TITO is constitutionally mandatory for election as Delegate. I would very much like Bratesbourgh to describe why he joined TITO and why he remains in it if he never intended to participate:

I have little in Awards in TITO, and perhaps not fit for the position, but I disagree with such matters.

Is this a direct disavowal of the purposes of TITO? For what purpose would a loyal member of the 10000 Islands wish to become Delegate who felt in such a way about TITO?

3. I am able to recognize the names of no (that is ZERO) active members of TITO in Bratesbourgh's endorsement list, although I recognize some who formerly served and either quit or were dismissed. Few if any of his endorsers are active members of these forums or on the RMB. I am forced to conclude that their activity in the 10000 Islands is simply to advance Bratesbourgh's candidacy, for whatever purposes and from whatever source it may spring. The appearance of serious impropriety and possibly even sedition here is extremely alarming.

4. Given this, I request Grub to order Bratesbourgh to deploy for at least 48 hours to support our mission in 0000 Middle Earth 0000. If he fails to do so, I request that he be dismissed from TITO, and thereby disqualified under the Constitution from service as Delegate.

5. I further request the Senate to consider provision for election of the Delegate through means of the proboards forum to protect the integrity of Delegate candidates and electors for all future elections.

[Bratesbourgh]

A spirited debate is excellent in my opinion.

I am quite adept at understanding NationStates and I regularly read and understand the opinions and ideas of the memberstates.

As for my party, I helped build and form the Moralist Party, a system of government my government finds pleasing. However, I feel the party systems and in fact the parties are very lacking anyways. As for the idea of vote swapping, I am not into that at all, I may endorse you to bring a proposal before the U.N. and work with others in getting it brought to a vote. Though, I've preferred forwarding such matters and informing those who seek such things to contact our Delegate.

I am not implying anything Fleeb, just stating a problematic issue. However, if you wish to call for the following action, and you feel it is necessary and Grub agrees, then I shall obey the orders of TITO. I did not join TITO to become Delegate, but as an expression of principles and ideas of the 10000 Islands.

As for the idea of Delegate, yes it is important in TITO, however I personally feel it can expand beyond just TITO purposes.

The thread topic? I happen to like the title, it is very rhetorical. However, if you'd like a new topic is there something that is more suitable?

I'm not sure why there is such extreme outrage. I have not slandered my opponent or given a huff about anything. I have stated my opinions of the position of Delegate. I have asked the voters of our group to come to the boards and read the boards, discuss their ideas, decide who they want, and then vote. If they decide to vote for me, is it not their right? Is it not the right of the U.N. members to decide the next Delegate.

If you'd like to ask Grub to order me into action, I am not against it. If he wants me to drop out of the election, I will of course obey the orders of the Founder. If you want SensitiveAge to win that is fine with me too, I'm not at all upset with any of this. If he wins, I shall salute the new delegate and take the orders of TITO as commanded.

If I may suggest, instead of just questioning me, may I recommend you go out and seek support for your candidate. It would help to talk with the memberstates and talk to the WHOLE 10000 Islands, and not a select group you deem worthy or not worthy. Organize and get the endorsements, you do it every day in TITO.

I hope I'm not coming off very rude or anything, I really am not trying to cause a social uprising and total disintergration of 10000 Islands or TITO, but have simply offered a new idea and expansion on what the Delegate can and should bring to the region.

Bratesbourgh

[Ishkabibber]

True enough Bratesbourgh. Regardless of purpose of intent, Fleeb does make the case for criteria relating to the position of Delegate.

There is a reason why an 18 year old high school graduate, regardless of intelligence or ability, is not qualified for the Office of the President of the United States. I believe the same rules regarding Delegate need to be created and applied in similar fashion. You have popped into existence, and in short order without much background or history other than what you have recently posted are in the running for a position that should have by default carried a minimum criteria beyond what is in place at this time. That's not your fault. What I believe is stirring the issue more than anything, and I'm speaking only for myself here, is how uncannily similar in appearance this situation appears to a takeover in other nations. Those of us who have been here for a while, and been a part of TITO ops, know this without even thinking about it.

You have ideas that do have merit, I just think you are not quite ready for prime time, and that same lack of experience could be crucial in the future.

FWIW

The Republic of Ishkabibber

[Sheynat]

I agree with Ishkabibber and Fleeb. You'd make a fine delegate, when you've been around more than a few months and actually been an active member. As it is, for all we know you're in the employ of one of our enemies. What I recommend is this. Withdraw from this race. Run later, when we trust you and you aren't coming from left field.

[Ambivila]

Bratesbourgh -

You haven't been in 10K islands long, or you would notice that this level of emotion is highly unusual in an election. As others have said, there's a reason you are seeing so much resistance to your candidacy.

The fact that you are new to the region, have relatively little interaction history, have no TITO missions, and are endorsed by a lot of people we haven't heard of.... makes your candidacy look a lot like an attempted takeover.

It probably isn't... but it's happened before elsewhere, and the experience and intuition of a lot of 10k Islanders says you should wait for the next delegate election.

[Fleeb]

Bratesbourgh,

You are not being rude, you are being disingenuous.

If you truly understand NS, you understand the alarm with which people greet your large support from nations that have not been at all active in any of the affairs of 10000 Islands. A number of us experience that, and your fey innocence, as the likely precursors of an attempted invasion.

Plus, you lied--lets start using clear language here since euphemism encourages your pietisms-- about my approach to you in reference to the original suggestion that you might want to deploy. That does not encourage me to trust you.

Show us by your actions that you are a loyal member of 10000 Islands. Until you do, your chatter is unimpressive.

[The Peoples of Yavanna]

I'm going to say I agree with Fleeb, 100%.

I also wish to say that I, personally, cannot trust a delegate candidate that has not participated in a regional defense. As Sheynat said, for all we know, you could be one of our enemies making a bid for our delegacy. And your small population, as well as your lack of participation in other government offices, belies your inexperience in reigonal government.

I am also quite bothered by this statement: "may I recommend you go out and seek support for your candidate. It would help to talk with the memberstates and talk to the WHOLE 10000 Islands, and not a select group you deem worthy or not worthy"

What, exactly, does that mean? The nations involved in regional government have put a great deal of work and care into this region... and we care about 10000 Islands as a whole. To suggest otherwise is to betray your ignorance about regional government. It takes hours and hours of actual time to telegram new and existing nations, to help them along, to encourage their involvement. Proboards involvement is highly encouraged for all nations, both to make their NS experience better, and to encourage their involvement in their own government. This is no exclusive club; we are open to any UN member nation that wishes to spend time making this region better for all. Endorsements alone are easy enough to get; your actions are what define you as a nation.

So, until you can SHOW me, by actions, hard work, and real participation in TITO, that you are committed to this region, I shall remain unimpressed. As it is, I find your actions and motives suspect. I also find your lack of experience and lack of involvement in TITO unsettling.

[Grub (Lenlyvit)]

Bratesbourgh is a candidate who has no TITO qualifications and just about everyone on the forum has realized this. Yet, he is in the race, so if I deployed him he would take a pretty big hit in endorsements. Because of that, I will leave it up to him if he wants to earn his first TITO Battle Star and deploy to 0000 Middle Earth 0000. Under normal circumstances, his deployment would be required or he'd be out of TITO. For now, it is up to him to participate.

The unfortunate thing is that the people that are the heart and soul of this region, the people on the forum who make the 10000 Islands what it is, are almost completely voting against Bratesbourgh, yet a bunch of unknowns are voting for him.

[First West Acron]

Yavanna said:

I'm going to say I agree with Fleeb, 100%.

I also wish to say that I, personally, cannot trust a delegate candidate that has not participated in a regional defense. As Sheynat said, for all we know, you could be one of our enemies making a bid for our delegacy. And your small population, as well as your lack of participation in other government offices, belies your inexperience in reigonal government.

I am also quite bothered by this statement: "may I recommend you go out and seek support for your candidate. It would help to talk with the memberstates and talk to the WHOLE 10000 Islands, and not a select group you deem worthy or not worthy"

What, exactly, does that mean? The nations involved in regional government have put a great deal of work and care into this region... and we care about 10000 Islands as a whole. To suggest otherwise is to betray your ignorance about regional government. It takes hours and hours of actual time to telegram new and existing nations, to help them along, to encourage their involvement. Proboards involvement is highly encouraged for all nations, both to make their NS experience better, and to encourage their involvement in their own government. This is no exclusive club; we are open to any UN member nation that wishes to spend time making this region better for all. Endorsements alone are easy enough to get; your actions are what define you as a nation.

So, until you can SHOW me, by actions, hard work, and real participation in TITO, that you are committed to this region, I shall remain unimpressed. As it is, I find your actions and motives suspect. I also find your lack of experience and lack of involvement in TITO unsettling.

I will concur with my former senatorial opponent Yavanna (btw congrats, you deserve it.)

You have been a nation for only a bit less time than I yet I have 20 TITO battle stars and you have none. I understand that RL forces some nations to not be as active as others and I do not mean to discredit any nation that is older than myself who does not have as many battle stars (my work schedule makes it very convenient for me to participate.)

I ask you directly WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? When outside regions have needed your help WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?

I await your response.

[flaggenstein]

Being one of those newer, smaller (though larger than Bratesborough) and less active nations of the 10000 Islands, this is my insight on what I think is happening.

Bratesborough sent a nice telegram to me, explaining that he was a delegate and asking for my endorsement. If he sent it to me, a relative nobody, then I'm guessing he sent it to many if not most of the nations with UN membership.

Now, I tend to lurk here on occasion, and watch the posts on the 10000 Island homepage, so I'm not totally out of the loop, but I'd guess that many of those nations who received his telegram are concerned only with having fun watching their nation grow and seeing the effects the different issues have on their nation. So, when they receive this telegram, they think "eh, why not", and endorse Bratesborough without ever knowing about this debate or the underlying issues. That's why he's being endorsed by a lot of nations you don't know. They don't know or don't care about the politics or history of this region.

My advice to TSNA (and the other influential nations who back him) is to do the same. Send telegrams, invite those newer nations (some of whom, like me, are probably a bit overwhelmed by the abstract complexity of NS) to come to this forum and see the discussion. Educate them about the history and the importance of having a seasoned member as delegate. Do this, and I suspect that you will see "nations you've never even heard of" begin to endorse TSNA, just as they are Bratesborough.

Finally, my personal opinion is that Bratesborough is not interested in the security, history, and prosperity of the 10000 islands. If he were, he would understand why he makes a poor choice for delegate at this time and would withdraw his candidacy. I wholly support TSNA as delegate.

Now, back to my lurking ;D

The Borderlands of Flaggenstein

[New Age Guilds]

look, i,ve been doing this game for over 9 months now.
i have sen regions fall and burn, and some prosper and live. just because bratsbourgh is young and enixperianced, doesnt mean he cant do anything. i can bet that ad infinitum would back me up, that even soldiers who have done the buissness for 20 years can be killed by a lucky shot, and some who havnt even been in the force for 2 months can sometimes win a battle.


give him a chance.



and if not, grub will eject him

[Bratesbourgh]

I thank you for your kind words New Age,

However, I have decided to end my campaign for Delegate. I have moved to assist Fleeb as he requested, and I wish to ask that all those who have endorsed me to send their endorsement to TNSA.

I hope you win, and I wish you great fortunes in serving as Delegate.

[TheSensitiveNewAge]

Thank you for your contribution.