The Aldershofsean Treatise Party (Thread Closed)

[Aldershofsa]

The Aldershofsean Treatise Party (ATP) operates under the principles, and virtues explained in the following writings.

On Leadership

The ATP is led by Aldershofsa- its founder. Because the party is not expected to grow rapidly, in its infant stages the ATP's leadership will be decided by seniority. After a general consensus is met, Aldershofsa will stay in power, as the party is based off of his ideas, but those below him and his 2 consultants will have equal power. ATP is in some ways a think tank and issues will be decided through debate within the topic.

On The World Assembly

The world assembly is massively important. While it is not required to be a member to be a member of the WA to be a member of the ATP, it is highly recommended. If a resolution is to be brought up that would have a significant impact, it is to be discussed within ATP, and, when a general consensus has been made, all nations in ATP are expected to vote as such. If no consensus can be reached within a reasonable time period, all member nations are free to vote as they see fit.

On Equilibrium

All nations in the Aldershofsean Treatise Party should follow a simple rule when making decisions regarding their nations. This rule is to keep their civil rights, political freedoms, and their economy as high as possible. All are equally important. The only time one of these 3 virtues should be voluntarily damaged is when a decision made in their favor would cause great pain and is nonsensical.

On War

10KI's TITO is in a sense a nuclear missile in real life. It's rarely used without provocation, but rather is used as a deterrent. Who will attack those that have the backing of TITO? As it turns out, multiple nations. War is inevitable and will not be ended. So why are we so passive? Our strategy is to wait. This leaves us and our allies vulnerable. Rather I recommend that if we are to live with this vice, we indulge in it- we actively destroy those who oppose us or our allies. The first strike in a battle is a massively important one, and it's something we deserve to have. We lose this benefit for ourselves through our continued deprivation. No longer can this continue.

1. All nations, deemed to be a threat, be attacked before they have the chance to attack.
2. The 10KI's remove from power any nation that is deemed a threat to us or to our allies, and to also remove from power any nation that endorses a nation that threatens us or our allies.
3. TITO hold a forum wide referendum before any major decision.

If these 3 statements were to be followed, within a short time 10KI's could go from the 7th most powerful region in the world, to the 1st.

[Glasgia]

Good luck! I don't think TITO will be happy with you following my vice though.

[Aldershofsa]

Arguing that the CO9 can't effect TITO is ridiculous. From what I can tell, the TITO forums are blocked from general access. The CO9 is the only entity that the general Islander can truly take part in. Members of the 10KI must discuss all issues pertaining to their region, and defense is a big one. If the only medium for discussion relating to defense is in the CO9 so be it. To shut off debate would be subversion of true democracy- a key principle of the 10KI

Edit: Made another novice mistake. If you read this post replace all instances of "co9" with "political parties" or something of the sort.

[Markanite]

Hi Aldershofa,

To be recognised as an official Political Party you need 3 WA Members Then I'll add you to my summary thread in the Welcome Center.

I've also sent you a PM.

[Wordy]

Nice to see another political party starting up.

As to you goals on TITO please note the following taken from our contitution.

Article IV. The 10000 Islands Treaty Organization

4. The 10000 Islands Treaty Organization is the defense and military arm of the 10000 Islands, subject to the authority of the Chief Executive as Commander in Chief. No action of the Senate shall have authority to intervene with or override decisions of the Chief Executive. TITO shall act for the defense of the 10000 Islands and its allies and friendly regions deemed to be under attack by aggressor regions.

[Aldershofsa]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention; That being said, my views do not violate the constitution. You see I realize direct action can not be put on TITO by any political party, no matter how massive. But I think it would be a very odd argument to say that a political party has no influence over TITO. If TITO fights for us as it intends to, TITO will fight for our views. My goal is simply to promote the view of aggressive defense. If that becomes the view of a significant portion of islanders, than I would think TITO would take it into consideration.

[Wordy]

It would be very incorrect to suggest a political party has any influence over TITO. As stated clearly in our Constitution they do not. It would seem you have a problem with our constitution and are white washing that fact.

[Aldershofsa]

No. The constitution bans political parties from directly making changes to TITO. Influencing TITO is massively different. Influencing someone/something is not "intervening" nor is it "overriding". I think you miss understand my message.

[Glasgia]

I fought this war and lost Alder. Wordy's right.

[Aldershofsa]

Simply because you failed in defending your position doesn't mean I will. I don't mean to offend you Glasgia- as I do have a good amount of respect for you- but I firmly believe in what I have to say and I will make my views clear and understood.

"No action of the Senate shall have authority to intervene with or override decisions of the Chief Executive." I believe this is the line Wordy is referring to. If a political party got to choose exactly what TITO did, we would have authority. I'm not advocating that. I'm advocating what is essentially a petition. If my party grows enough, and this view point is advanced through numbers, it's basic logic that TITO will have to consider.

[Wordy]

TITO Mission Statement:

TITO, the Ten thousand Islands Treaty Organization, stands to defeat aggression in the NationStates world by defeating groups or regions that attack innocent regions.

Any region that attacks an innocent region is an enemy of TITO and the 10000 Islands. The attacking of innocent regions is a cowardly and dishonorable practice. The invaders attack out of ego and their invasions of quiet and innocent regions is the online equivalent of bullying. TITO stands up to the bullies of this game and will hound them by whatever means necessary, in accordance with NationStates rules.

TITO cannot and will not defend every region in NationStates, but when a region is unjustly invaded, not only will we hold the option of defending that region in whatever manner we see fit, but we also hold the option of attacking the attacking regions homeland itself.

TITO and the 10000 Islands seeks to live in peace with all regions in NationStates, but we will not back down to the those that wish to impose their will on innocent regions.

This is a warning to all regions that engage in the practice of region crashing -- if we haven't heard of you yet, we will. If we haven't stopped you yet, we will, and if you haven't felt our presence in your homeland yet, you will. There are ways to make life difficult for those regions that wish to oppress others. If you attack innocent regions, beware TITO. Long live freedom, long live the 10000 Islands and long live TITO!

Grub

Now exactly what part of that do you take issue with?

[Aldershofsa]

It sounds lovely to me. My question is, what part of that do I violate?

[Aersoldorf]

Your mistake is thinking that ANY Political party in the Islands can sway or influence TITO. It isn't going to happen. TITO is an entirely separate entity from the Co9 and from all political parties in the Islands. The ONLY way to influence TITO decisions is through Grub or through the TO's and XO. Suggesting that we turn raider to achieve our goals is nothing more than inflammatory propaganda that will not be beneficial to your cause here. The opposite is actually the case. Since you aren't a member of TITO at the moment, I don't expect you to understand fully the philosophy that they adopt. However, as a sentient being I would expect that you can look at the 8 year history of the organization, the almost 1700 missions that they have chosen to participate in, the great contributions made by the many TITO Knights and other members, and come to realize that you shouldn't expect to make significant changes to an Organization that has existed for nigh unto 100 times the length that your nation has. This is not to say that you're out and out wrong in your desires, I'm merely trying to point out that you are going about it in the wrong manner. Take Glasgia's advice. Alter your platform to be less inflammatory, perhaps join TITO (if they will still have you) and see what you're arguing against before you actually try beating them into submission.


Just my two cents.

[Aersoldorf]

And I'll redact the above and this if anyone from TITO has a problem with me acting on my own.

[Aldershofsa]

Mar 31, 2012 14:46:15 GMT -5 Aersoldorf said:

Your mistake is thinking that ANY Political party in the Islands can sway or influence TITO. It isn't going to happen. TITO is an entirely separate entity from the Co9 and from all political parties in the Islands. The ONLY way to influence TITO decisions is through Grub or through the TO's and XO. Suggesting that we turn raider to achieve our goals is nothing more than inflammatory propaganda that will not be beneficial to your cause here. The opposite is actually the case. Since you aren't a member of TITO at the moment, I don't expect you to understand fully the philosophy that they adopt. However, as a sentient being I would expect that you can look at the 8 year history of the organization, the almost 1700 missions that they have chosen to participate in, the great contributions made by the many TITO Knights and other members, and come to realize that you shouldn't expect to make significant changes to an Organization that has existed for nigh unto 100 times the length that your nation has. This is not to say that you're out and out wrong in your desires, I'm merely trying to point out that you are going about it in the wrong manner. Take Glasgia's advice. Alter your platform to be less inflammatory, perhaps join TITO (if they will still have you) and see what you're arguing against before you actually try beating them into submission.


Just my two cents.

I appreciate your two cents and find them to be very sensible. That being said, I am not trying to attack TITO. I admire their goal. I am trying to aid them with my own ideas, which I feel could be worth considering. The phrase "the best defense is a good offense" has some truth to it.

Regardless of how feasible this is I still believe I should have the right to try. What is theoretical and what is applied are both equally important.

I would love to join TITO, to be immersed in their activities and to learn. That being said I don't know how. If I could get instructions I would gladly experience what they're all about. I might require a 'letter of recommendation' of sorts if they're skeptical about me. If you would be kind enough it would be greatly appreciated.

[Aersoldorf]

I'll leave it to Wordy to take the matter from here.

[Aldershofsa]

I don't see why there is a matter to be honest. I mean no harm or disrespect; only to help. Thus far no part of the constitution has been presented that I violate.

[Grub]

Sorry, but the platform of this proposed party violates the Constitution. Parties have zero say in regard to TITO. Even the Council of Nine has no say in regard to TITO matters.

Grub
Founder 10000 Islands/TITO

[Aldershofsa]

I respect that you're the founder... And just for convenience sake I'll take out 'on war'. But no, it doesn't violate the constitution. You may be the founder but I can read a document as well as you can, and this does not violate anything stated in it.

[Cerb]

Well let me put it this way for you.

The majority of the people who have advised you are TITO Knights, or members of TITO command.

They have all taken the time to advise you that you are not able to influence or advise TITO, either individually or as a political party. Grub has advised you that your party goal of influencing TITO is in contravention of the constitution.

I'd take that onboard if I were you.

Let me describe what is and isn't cool.
Cool:
We are a party that supports defending and we encourage our members to participate in TITO.

What isn't cool.
We aren't that happy with what TITO is doing, and we're going to bring pressure to try and change it.

Why?
Because no person outside of TITO command can change TITO. Period. End of story.

I can't change it as a TITO Knight. I can't change it as Registrar General. I can't change it as a permanent member of the CO9.

Is any of this making sense?

[Aldershofsa]

I get the idea. That being said, the idea isn't in the constitution. I respect all of the people who have advised me, I really do, the text quoted does not expose any violation.

[Cerb]

Mar 31, 2012 4:55:00 GMT -5 Aldershofsa said:

Arguing that the CO9 can't effect TITO is ridiculous.
*snip*

This?

[Aldershofsa]

To start with, if you were to continue that post you would see I edited it to replace all instances of CO9 with political party. If you were to read the previous discussion you would see why I argue that indeed a political party can effect TITO and how this is not a violation of the constitution.

[Cerb]

It doesn't matter how you try and tweak it.

A political party can not influence TITO. Nobody outside of TITO command can influence TITO.

That's the point.

Any outside group that tries to influence islanders to change TITO will no doubt be seen as a threat and be judged in complete violation of the constitution.

I'll leave this stand as is. If you wish to continue the concept then you can say you were fairly warned.

[Aldershofsa]

Okay so let me get this straight, they can't influence it because we say they can't? Why don't you just say that because the constitution (which you haven't quoted by the way) doesn't support you at all. However the constitution does say this-

" 5.2. Freedom of speech. The general government shall make no law restricting the freedom of speech within the 10000 Islands beyond those rules governing all participation and etiquette in NationStates. In keeping with the NationStates rules of etiquette, the following behaviors will constitute grounds for immediate ejection from the region and reporting to the game moderators:
"

I am in no way violating the NS etiquette rules so taking any action against me would be unconstitutional.

Furthermore, I have not tweaked anything and to accuse me of such is hypocritical. You're stretching it to say what you want it to, not taking it at what it actually says.

[Cerb]

Apr 1, 2012 21:52:14 GMT -5 Aldershofsa said:

Okay so let me get this straight, they can't influence it because we say they can't? Why don't you just say that because the constitution (which you haven't quoted by the way) doesn't support you at all. However the constitution does say this-

" 5.2. Freedom of speech. The general government shall make no law restricting the freedom of speech within the 10000 Islands beyond those rules governing all participation and etiquette in NationStates. In keeping with the NationStates rules of etiquette, the following behaviors will constitute grounds for immediate ejection from the region and reporting to the game moderators:
"

I am in no way violating the NS etiquette rules so taking any action against me would be unconstitutional.

Furthermore, I have not tweaked anything and to accuse me of such is hypocritical. You're stretching it to say what you want it to, not taking it at what it actually says.

Actually, taking a concept that you know someone just ran into trouble with, and then rehashing it and reposting it could definately be called trolling.

Continuing an argument that a global moderator and the founder and chief executive has already told you isn't going to fly can be called flamebaiting.


And this is where you say "no it isn't".

[Aldershofsa]

Well it depends on how you consider the two. If I was flaming, I wouldn't continually mention the respect I have for all parties involved. I think Grub founded a great region and I think you are doing a big job for a great region. I have no interest in tossing around insults and I don't believe I have. I'm not angry with any of you and I wish you wouldn't be angry with me.

I also don't see how this is trolling because I'm not doing this to get a reaction. I've even removed "On War" to end these arguments, but you continue them. If anyone's trolling, I'm sorry, but it's you Cerb. I don't want a reaction out of anyone. I want my political party to be left in peace.

[Shemiki]

I think what these people are trying to tell you is that you are arguing that if your political party gets a strong enough voice TITO would have to consider you guys. However, TITO is not influenced by any external forces, no matter what your political party or you says.

[Wordy]

The original post has been changed and I think people should read the party outline there before posting here.
We do not need to further disrupt the thread.

[Aldershofsa]

Thank you Wordy.